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  1. #21
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    Re: experience with Pass Labs amps?

    OK experts! here I am again, the beginner!

    I did some checking. say you have a speaker with 86 dB sensitivity. so, one watt makes 86 decibel sound. 4 watts would make 92 decibels, plenty loud. 32 watts makes 101 db, like a live classical orchestra. my room is 13 by 13 feet. that is why I am struggling with this whole concept. I have a great Triode tube amp, class A 50 watts per channel. I love my amp. does this mean I am usually listening at say 10 watts of power or less???? lots of things going on here. I do not listen at deafening levels. I hear the boston symphony live pretty often and they are LOUD.
    1. I THINK that the "weak link" in my stereo is my bowers and wilkins speakers. I love my oppo SACD player and REL sub woofers, have two. I wish to upgrade my speakers. they are PLENTY loud, but I think I could get BETTER sound.
    2. I just want to learn about Pass Labs and first watt, even if I never buy any. just curious. he seems quite unusual.

    dumb questions:
    1. assuming I keep my triode 50 watt amp long term, what sort of sensitivity in my speakers should I be looking for? I want QUALITY sound, not LOUD sound.I have a recording of Helene Grimaud playing Brahms #2 piano concerto, and you hear her breathing. ( I also heard her breathing at her LIVE performance!) Mike Bovaird suggested focal sopra 1 speakers, which I never heard, but I am SURE are great! I trust Mike implicitly. would like specific recommendations for speakers here.
    2. if I go a "strange" route and get a "low" powered amp, like First Watt, or others you guys know, which speakers would I need. I understand some of you get 8 watt amps, etc.

    I still appreciate any and all comments! Mike, sounds as though you survived the hurricane!
    best regards, bob
    stereo: integrated amp: Triode TRX 88pp with KT 88 tubes. oppo 105 CD player, bowers-wilkins CM6 S2 speakers, two REL T/5 subwoofers.

  2. #22
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    Re: experience with Pass Labs amps?

    my speakers are rated at 88dB
    stereo: integrated amp: Triode TRX 88pp with KT 88 tubes. oppo 105 CD player, bowers-wilkins CM6 S2 speakers, two REL T/5 subwoofers.

  3. #23
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    Re: experience with Pass Labs amps?

    Before my speaker drivers went kaput, I was sitting there just amazed that the Magico S5 speakers could sound so GOOD while playing so LOUD. I was literally being physically pounded by the SPL, and it sounded great. Actually, since the amps were rated at 1200 W/ch @ 4 ohm, and the Magicos were rated up to 1200 W, I was trying to find out where clipping and/or distortion started.

    Pass makes great gear.
    Bud

    Lumin S1
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD
    Pass XP-20 pre, X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon for source, Denali 2000 (2) for amps
    Shunyata Z Anaconda XLR analog ICs, Z Anaconda speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
    Revelation Audio Passage Cryo-Silver Reference DB-25 umbilical power cable

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.

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  5. #24
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    Re: experience with Pass Labs amps?

    Published sensitivity specs are often inaccurate. Further, sensitivity is (by convention) at a distance of 1 meter, from one speaker. So 2 speakers instantly doubles that, but loudness will fall off somewhere between the inverse square and the inverse cube of the distance, not accounting for room reinforcement.
    Rob
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  6. #25
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    Re: experience with Pass Labs amps?

    You might want to take a look at Sonist Speakers, they are highly efficient, so will play loud enough with low watts. They set I heard sounded good, they use a ribbon tweeter.

    I personally love electrostatic speakers with tubes, great for Classical, especially if more into strings. You already have the subs. Electrostats are more voltage driven so your amp shouldn't have a problem.

    I prefer higher efficient speakers with tubes but I also don't like to run out of volume to spare.
    Mark Levinson #512 & 532h, Pass Labs XP10, JBL 4367's
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    HT: Marantz AV8003/BD7003, Linn 5125, JBL SAM3ha, Revel s30, SVS PC13 Ultra
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  7. #26
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    Re: experience with Pass Labs amps?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    Randy

    Is the "new" amp a progression of the one he showed at CES last year that never appeared on the market?
    Hey Jack, Check the W4S forum thread... I am sure there is some bugs still to work out... but if all goes well I hope to listen to it at RMAF ... maybe I can get him to sneak it into the back room and fire it up with the KEF References... it's got to be broke in... right ...
    Electronics: Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE, DAC-2v2SE, Recovery, Remedy Amplifier Rotation: Quicksilver Silver 88 Mono's | ARC VT50 | First Watt F6
    Speakers/Headphones: KEF R700, Kube,
    M500 | Sennheiser HD800S | Woo Audio WA6
    Sources: Roon Headless Server & Roon Tablet Controller | Marantz SA8005
    | McIntosh MR85 w/Magnum Dynalab ST-2
    Cables: Richard Gray | Wireworld | Audioquest | Tributaries | Kimber Kable | Wyred 4 Sound
    Power: Furman Elite 15i | iFi iPower | PS Audio Noise Harvesters

  8. #27
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    Re: experience with Pass Labs amps?

    Bob, IMO, your amp in your room and with your choice of listening volume is more than sufficient for the majority of speakers out there.
    With you having subs, in that room I would use stand mount monitors. You can position the subs for the best bass and the monitors for best imaging and staging.
    Many great stand mount speakers to choose from. Of course higher efficiency helps in dynamics and "speed" but I would not make efficiency as my top requirement.
    The PASS amps that I have heard have always been both dynamic yet sweet. But they are not tube amps and while in some ways similar, they are still S.S. amps and have that signature.
    As has been said many times, it is best to start with your speakers, and build your system from there.
    Demo in your space if at all possible. Many of the more Botique manufacturers offer an audition period on their products.
    Just remember, YMMV. But above all, Enjoy the Journey
    My System:
    A trusty old Pioneer PD-65 as a Transport, A Mac Mini with Curious Cables and an Uptone Audio Regen, and a Merrill Heirloom T.T. as sources. A Lampizator DAC to Fusion Audio Romance Cables to an Audio Horizons Tubed PreAmp, Coincident Frankenstein 300B monoblocks, Silnote Orion M1 speaker cables, Sonist Concerto 4 Speakers. DCCA Furutech and Kaplan Power cables, DIY Balanced power conditioner, Two dedicated 20Amp power lines. DIY corner traps and Acoustic Geometry Curves for room treatment.

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  10. #28
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    Re: experience with Pass Labs amps?

    I once hooked up my DAC, which has no volume control, directly to the amps by mistake and when I hit play, my amps played at full volume into my Wilsons! I quickly shut it down, but jeez, I thought I must have blown something up! Fortunately, after hooking up correctly, I had no issues whatsoever. Does that mean Wilsons can take more punishment than Magicos?
    Regards,
    Steve


    I only do what the voices in my wife's head tell her to tell me to do.

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  12. #29
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    Re: experience with Pass Labs amps?

    "....Does that mean Wilsons can take more punishment than Magicos?"

    Not necessarily. In Bud's case, I guess the signal passed though a preamp, which might put on further gain.

  13. #30
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    Re: experience with Pass Labs amps?

    Not to sidetrack the thread, but there are many variables between the Wilson and Magico full power issue.

    First, what are the amp ratings? What are the speaker ratings? How long was the system at full power?

    I wish I had an engineering/QA job at Magico so I could explore these issues.
    Bud

    Lumin S1
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD
    Pass XP-20 pre, X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon for source, Denali 2000 (2) for amps
    Shunyata Z Anaconda XLR analog ICs, Z Anaconda speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
    Revelation Audio Passage Cryo-Silver Reference DB-25 umbilical power cable

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.

 

 
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