Magico S3 mk2 vs Dynaudio Contour 60

[AJR]

I also found the sub for your visceral bass (a bit tongue in cheek, I hope you don't mind), it was introduced at the Munich High End show this year...



...the Ascendo 50" sub .


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[AJR]

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am still chuckling over that

[Dr Tone]

Are you comparing the speakers at normal listening volumes or are you turning them up a little more for your auditions?

[a.wayne]

If you have the same cone area and the same number of drivers , the vented cabinet will have more dynamic impact in the bass, typically 6 db more output at tuned frequency. A sealed enclosure will have to have 4 times the woofers to have the same gain.

This dynamic Impact is what is felt as well as heard, there is no way for a sealed enclosure to have the same output power all things else remaining equal . The OP preference is heavy bass electronic music , this is a no brainier , but I'm sure the Sealed "it's not limp but clean Bass advocates" defying science will set this straight ....



Regards ..

[a.wayne]

I read that review. I agree that technically the S3 mk2 wins, and that its bass goes deeper than the Dynaudios. But what it does not give is a visceral bass feeling. Its bass sound is no doubt technically better, but I quite like to physically feel the bass. What I am trying to work out is if it is possible to get the best of both worlds. Can I get the taut, articulated and deep S3 mk2 bass sound but so that I feel it (as opposed to just hearing it).

This is the typical strawman argument when discussing low end response, technically speaking only the -3db down point in relation to 1K is of importance, Why..? for the low end response to be sensed and heard it will have to be flat, rising or have a -3db point at 20Hz for you to sense and feel this difference, falling less than the other guy into subsonic territory is a Meh at best ..

doubt it ... !

Listen for yourself , level match and see. I'm with Jim, most bass reflex or bass issues on a whole from speakers that are well designed, is usually from a poor setup and room localization ..


Regards ...

[GSOphile]

AJR, if you want more visceral (as opposed to accurate) bass without a sub, you really should hear Wilson Yvettes and Sasha 2s. Although at 100 hours (?), not sure you've heard what the S3 Mk IIs can really do.

[Audio 1]

AJR, if you want more visceral (as opposed to accurate) bass without a sub, you really should hear Wilson Yvettes and Sasha 2s. Although at 100 hours (?), not sure you've heard what the S3 Mk IIs can really do.

I agree!

[Mr Peabody]

I've heard a lot of Dyn's and owned a set of older Contour. Trust me when 50 hours isn't even beginning to break them in, unless they've done something different on the new series. All the Dyn's I've experienced have taken a very long time to break in, even some Audience series I've had. On mine the highs definitely smooth out but the bass actually became fuller, the woofers were very tight. The rear ports need to be a good way from a rear wall, this takes experimenting to get right. Dyn also provides port plugs with all their speakers for a closer placement situation. Dynaudio also has a Pro side that does well. They also build their own drivers and pretty much everything else in their speakers themselves. You might find I interesting to isten to the 60's down the road if the dealer has the same pair.

The lack of distortion in the Magico makes sense, accounting for the ease of listening I heard.

I only heard TAD speakers once, and, with TAD electronics, I remember thinking the sound was similar to Magico. I have no idea the price range but could be worth a listen.

Not that they sound similar to what you are listening to bt you might like the sound of ATC.

[Melbguy1]

Another sweeping statement. There are plenty of very well designed superb sounding speakers that have ported bass -- I own 2 of them -- Vienna Acoustics The Music and Sonus Faber Stradivari. In my system, there is no smearing or loss of resolution.

I'd add the Marten Coltrane series to that list. Kudos to Leif Oloffson for producing such well sorted ported speakers. Even the Mingus Quintet sounds tight and dynamic, though not quite to the level of the Coltrane series.

[a.wayne]

I agree!

I hope not to the inaccurate bass part ....

[GSOphile]

Poor choice of words. "Less emphasized" probably would have been better.

[LVB]

Poor choice of words. "Less emphasized" probably would have been better.

Don’t let Wayne intimidate you, you picked the perfect words. How exactly a ported design can be “accurate” if it has a “6 db more output at (a) tuned frequency” (on that we agree, btw)? When Wayne solves this conundrum, and build such a speaker, one that is both accurate, but also is boosted at some frqs, he should let us know

[AJR]

Are you comparing the speakers at normal listening volumes or are you turning them up a little more for your auditions?

A bit of both. I do tend to listen to my music at fairly loud volumes and it was at the louder volumes where the Dyaudio bass feel that I liked kicked in. My Magico dealer unfortunately does not have any S5 mk2s to test but does have some S7s. So my plan is to listen to the S7s and draw some conclusions about how the S5s are likely to sound based on that.

Thanks everyone for your suggested alternatives. Re: the Wilsons, I do struggle with the aesthetic (I much prefer the look of the Magicos) but will try the Sasha 2s, the Yvettes and also the Sabrinas. YG Acoustics and Genesis also look interesting.

AJR

[a.wayne]

Don’t let Wayne intimidate you, you picked the perfect words. How exactly a ported design can be “accurate” if it has a “6 db more output at (a) tuned frequency” (on that we agree, btw)? When Wayne solves this conundrum, and build such a speaker, one that is both accurate, but also is boosted at some frqs, he should let us know

Maybe he choose to be respectful and BTW been there done that and sold that hog ........




You can have your own opinion , not your own science, dont confuse the two, what you prefer is not science and the 6 db gain is not a negative, in order to have the same output sealed will require multiple woofers to match , sealed will also have more distortion and if the vented cabinet is done correctly with a similar woofer array , there is no comparison, it's a win, win, over sealed , regardless of how you roll the science.

Designers will choose either or based on their design requirements and goals..

The real issues with vented vs Sealed is the difficulty , sealed is a no brain operation, vented requires the ability to apply the science, for size, efficiency , sensitivity and room application/interference, the easy way out is usually sealed, but what you end up with is a speaker with less jump and life , you say smooth , to others it lacks the jump and punch of live music .

Now we are here , with another queasy about the sealed Magico bass, so what , it's his ears and choice , no different than one preferring Magico bass ..

Why deride the choice .... ?

Magico's are well built and designed loudspeakers , I'm respectful of Alon's work and after hearing the S3 Mk2 i told Mike at that price point it's a winner , it's a good ( cant say the same for the MK1, it was lame to me ) speaker , good company , the work to make those cabinets is unimaginable, not to mention the effort.

Is anything Magico SOTA , not even close IMO, very difficult to get a single point source single pr of direct radiating box speaker to do SOTA level Audio, well none I have heard, so please get off this high horse , its a bit tiring hearing this constant doo doo about distortion less bass and one not use to clean Magico bass , yaddy , yada ...


There are others doing good work ...

Regards ....

[a.wayne]

A bit of both. I do tend to listen to my music at fairly loud volumes and it was at the louder volumes where the Dyaudio bass feel that I liked kicked in. My Magico dealer unfortunately does not have any S5 mk2s to test but does have some S7s. So my plan is to listen to the S7s and draw some conclusions about how the S5s are likely to sound based on that.

Thanks everyone for your suggested alternatives. Re: the Wilsons, I do struggle with the aesthetic (I much prefer the look of the Magicos) but will try the Sasha 2s, the Yvettes and also the Sabrinas. YG Acoustics and Genesis also look interesting.

AJR

Heard good things about YG, never heard them thou .....


Regards

[LVB]

There are others doing the work too ....


Regards ...

Like I said, keep us posted ...

[Kuoppis]

Is anything Magico SOTA , not even close IMO

Says who? Some fancy pants no-one has ever heard of and who is right now just a bit full of himself?

With all due respect, you do not operate even close to a level to be capable of assessing that.


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[a.wayne]

Says who? Some fancy pants no-one has ever heard of and who is right now just a bit full of himself?

With all due respect, you do not operate even close to a level to be capable of assessing that.


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Captn Irony,

you know this how? ..

Care to enlighten me ! Which direct radiating Magico model is at SOTA level and in case you missed it , Alon's super bigfoot ( SOTA attempt) have Horns.

Coincidence ...?





PS: IMO, i know , i know , hard for you to get that .......

[Kuoppis]

Keep the words coming dear friend. If you would be anything than just a self-declared Master of the Universe you would have enough self-respect not to be bitching about colleagues in open fora - and you would have something else to show for than arrogance and big words.


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[a.wayne]

Keep the words coming dear friend. If you would be anything than just a self-declared Master of the Universe you would have enough self-respect not to be bitching about colleagues in open fora - and you would have something else to show for than arrogance and big words.


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Who and which colleague did i bitch at ,

I gave my Opinion and stand by it , i dont consider any single pr point source direct radiating loudspeaker a SOTA attempt , none i have heard in 40 yrs of hi-fi has convinced me otherwise.


You can verify this by looking at what each and every "hi-end" designer produces as their SOTA attempt....

[Kuoppis]

Who and which colleague did i bitch at ,

I gave my Opinion and stand by it , i dont consider any single pr point source direct radiating loudspeaker a SOTA attempt , none i have heard in 40 yrs of hi-fi has convinced me otherwise.


You can verify this by looking at what each and every "hi-end" designer produces as their SOTA attempt....

Alon Wolf and Yair Tammam, stating their work is not SOTA. Even though I somehow suspect you cannot rise up to the claim to call yourself a colleague to real hi-end professionals.

Care to enlighten me how you think you would be able to judge? What are your references, what have you achieved in high end audio, what makes you think you would be able to judge?


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[a.wayne]

Alon Wolf and Yair Tammam, stating their work is not SOTA.

you dont say ......

Even though I somehow suspect you cannot rise up to the claim to call yourself a colleague to real hi-end professionals.

Never said i was a colleague

Care to enlighten me how you think you would be able to judge?

Two Ears, both in perfect working condition .....

1. What are your references ........
2. what have you achieved in high end audio,
3. what makes you think you would be able to judge?

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1. Live music
2. The pleasure of experiencing your Irony..
3. I have the best wife in the world and she is currently watching so good judgement



Did i get in ..?

Regards ...

[Kuoppis]

you dont say ......



Never said i was a colleague



Two Ears, both in perfect working condition .....





1. Live music
2. The pleasure of experiencing your Irony..
3. I have the best wife in the world and she is currently watching so good judgement





Regards ...

Evading answers when haven't got any good ones? Now you totally convinced me.

So you indeed appear just to be a big mouth pretending to know and with very little to show.

?? LOL ??


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[a.wayne]

Personal attacks must be your forte, try discussing the topic, have anything to add to the discussion or more attacks and Irony ...?



Regards ...

[Kuoppis]

Personal attacks must be your forte, try discussing the topic, have anything to add to the discussion or more attacks and Irony ...?

Regards ...

I am happy to reiterate: why do you think Magico products are not SOTA and why do you think you would be able to judge while not having any experience in the industry?

Asking for clarification about your statements is typically not considered a personal attack, unless of course the person making claims is not able to substantiate them.

I am actually not too particular about what you respond, you have already proven the point: you appear are not to be able to really argument your case.

[audiophil]

Perhaps you two would prefer to take your disagreements to a more appropriate (i.e.private) forum?

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[the professor]

And I thought 5 year olds weren't on the internet.

[Melbguy1]

And I thought 5 year olds weren't on the internet.

Seems I turned my back for 8 hrs only to return to another school yard dust up . Fighting over Jessica Alba, sure, but loudspeakers?

[Kuoppis]

Nothing against Jessica Alba....


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[Melbguy1]

..so please get off this high horse , its a bit tiring hearing this constant doo doo about distortion less bass and one not use to clean Magico bass , yaddy , yada ...

a.wayne, whilst I respect your technical understanding, no one is forcing you to post in the Magico forum. Have you considered participants in this forum might be tired of reading your meh comments?

[AJR]

To bring the discussion back to the original subject , I gave the S3 mk2s an extended listen today and after that listened to the Dynaudio Contour 60s again. The previous listens were the other way around. I am now fully converted to the sealed box sound and in particular the amazing coherency of the S3s. I found that the bottom end on the Dynaudios was in fact too big and overly prominent for me when comparing against the S3s. So I have done a full 180! I still plan to listen to the Wilsons and the Genesis G5s but the S3s are the clear benchmark for me now. I also think that I could get even better sound from the S3s if I upgraded my Devialet expert pro 220 (a medium-term possibility). The Soulution gear I tried seemed to produce a richer/fuller sound compared to my Devialet.

AJR

[Kuoppis]

To bring the discussion back to the original subject , I gave the S3 mk2s an extended listen today and after that listened to the Dynaudio Contour 60s again. The previous listens were the other way around. I am now fully converted to the sealed box sound and in particular the amazing coherency of the S3s. I found that the bottom end on the Dynaudios was in fact too big and overly prominent for me when comparing against the S3s. So I have done a full 180! I still plan to listen to the Wilsons and the Genesis G5s but the S3s are the clear benchmark for me now. I also think that I could get even better sound from the S3s if I upgraded my Devialet expert pro 220 (a medium-term possibility). The Soulution gear I tried seemed to produce a richer/fuller sound compared to my Devialet.

AJR

AJR, happy to hear you were able to take the time to audition different alternatives in a bit more detail. For me the purpose of responding to the thread has been to support you on your journey.

While I'm of course pleased to hear that the S3 mk2s are your current favorite, I would still encourage you to audition the Wilsons and other alternatives as well. I am not the kind of Magico owner who thinks everything else is not good and should be totally disregarded. It's just that in my room, with my equipment and for the music I enjoy they do a fantastic job. I am hearing the same things you are referring to, great detail and clarity in the bass, very good coherence and detailed yet not sharp highs.

Also, as you refer to electronics, it definitely makes sense to think about the entire chain when buying your transducers. When I bought my first Magicos (S1 mk1) I was auditioning them with a Dartzeel CTH-8550 against WA Sophia 3s. Latter was actually the combo with the better synergy, as the Sophias were a lighter load for the amp. At the end I nevertheless concluded I preferred the S1s with a punchier amp.


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[Melbguy1]

I gave the S3 mk2s an extended listen today and after that listened to the Dynaudio Contour 60s again. The previous listens were the other way around. I am now fully converted to the sealed box sound and in particular the amazing coherency of the S3s.

You realise Kuoppis just had an orgasm?!

[kzhtoo]

AJR, I think I'm as big of a bass head as you are. I have Magico S3 mk1 with JL F113v2 sub (I know S-sub is better but you will be surprised how much JL sealed design integrate well with S3s sealed bass). I too was in your position about 4 years ago flipping speakers left and right, from dynaudio, Focal, paradigm, Totem, etc., looking for that electronic bass. Once I got S3s set up in my room, I knew I found it. Magico sealed bass is the answer. I could also never be able to integrate sub well in my room with other speakers until the S3s.

One other thing is, as good as devialet is I don't see many people using it long term with Magico speakers. IME only with the class A amp and Siltech cabling (both power and signal) the total sound becomes musical, grain free and gives me hours after hours of fatigue free listening. I do have Ayre KX-R pre and I'd like to think it also plays a big part. With the new diamond coated tweeter on S3mk2, you might be less sensitive to amp and cable pairing, but nonetheless careful system matching is needed for any Magico speakers. Once it clicks, you just want more Magico speakers and nothing else (Kuoppis can attest to that).
Anyway, just thought I share my experience in this topic.

I did have a long audition session with Yvette and thought they were very enjoyable (Sabrina not so much). I didn't get to play bass heavy music then, so I'm not sure about electronic music. But from what I heard, the ported bass signature is there that are shared by many manufacturers.

Good luck. Regardless of what you end up choosing the speakers on the list are all world class and I'm confident you will be happy with it.

[Mike]

AJR, I think I'm as big of a bass head as you are. I have Magico S3 mk1 with JL F113v2 sub (I know S-sub is better but you will be surprised how much JL sealed design integrate well with S3s sealed bass). I too was in your position about 4 years ago flipping speakers left and right, from dynaudio, Focal, paradigm, Totem, etc., looking for that electronic bass. Once I got S3s set up in my room, I knew I found it. Magico sealed bass is the answer. I could also never be able to integrate sub well in my room with other speakers until the S3s.

One other thing is, as good as devialet is I don't see many people using it long term with Magico speakers. IME only with the class A amp and Siltech cabling (both power and signal) the total sound becomes musical, grain free and gives me hours after hours of fatigue free listening. I do have Ayre KX-R pre and I'd like to think it also plays a big part. With the new diamond coated tweeter on S3mk2, you might be less sensitive to amp and cable pairing, but nonetheless careful system matching is needed for any Magico speakers. Once it clicks, you just want more Magico speakers and nothing else (Kuoppis can attest to that).
Anyway, just thought I share my experience in this topic.

I did have a long audition session with Yvette and thought they were very enjoyable (Sabrina not so much). I didn't get to play bass heavy music then, so I'm not sure about electronic music. But from what I heard, the ported bass signature is there that are shared by many manufacturers.

Good luck. Regardless of what you end up choosing the speakers on the list are all world class and I'm confident you will be happy with it.

A terrific post.


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[AJR]

I also listened to the S7s. Holy crap. Amazing. Point was to use as a reference to guess what the S5 mk2s would sound like (dealer doesn't have them). No clear conclusions. I do wonder (further to my earlier post re: S3 mk2s plus S-sub v S5 mk2s, and also further to kzhtoo's and Mike's comments) whether adding a sub would then complete the S3s. Putting aside a potential electronics upgrade! The dealer thought that the former would bring me closer to the S7s than the S5s. Anyway, is just a side thought about future upgrade potential if I ended up choosing the S3s. My current feeling is that the S3s have enough bass for my room.

[Mr Peabody]

Sounds like AJR is about to take a ride on the merry-go-round. LOL

That's alright, sometimes it takes a couple spins to get us where we want to be. Sometime back it was a speaker change that did it to me. And, now, I don't even have those speakers any more

Anyone think Jessica could stand to gain a couple pounds?

[Narayan]

a.wayne, whilst I respect your technical understanding, no one is forcing you to post in the Magico forum. Have you considered participants in this forum might be tired of reading your meh comments?

I understand the Magico owners / fans being proud about the company but that does not give people the right to insult when a differing opinion from "superb" is expressed. You have to realise, however incredible that might seem to you and other owners,to many (I cannot say since I haven´t listened to them) Magico speakers are not exactly their cup of tea. This thread was about Dynaudio & Magico, so I suppose the OP will have welcomed all kinds of experiences.

There´s sometimes a certain level of hostility and belittling in the Magico forum towards anything non Magico related that is a bit unpleasant.

[LVB]

There´s sometimes a certain level of hostility and belittling in the Magico forum towards anything non Magico related that is a bit unpleasant.

Passive-aggressive,condescending comments, like the one A.Wayne like to sprinkle around, are plenty unpleasant. You can have an opinion, but you better came out clean on it and not pollute the thread with obnoxious one liners. Apparently A. Wayne is a horn/PA DIY kind of guy, if he would have disclose his preferences right up front, tone down the smirk a bit, this conversation would have looked much different.

[Jack]

Since we are apparently now in the $30k territory you might as well try and get a listen to the Vandersteen 5A Carbon. Available in whatever color you specify and fully adjustable bass tailored to your room.

[Mr Peabody]

Also, since in $30k, just curious if the dealer had any other Dynaudio like Confidence or Evidence? Of course, most in that line would be imposing in your room, just wondered how you liked those. The C1 is a nice stand mount, less money than the Contour 60, it would be interesting though to hear a comparison with the Magico. Not that the C1 would come close to being better, the balance may be closer though as a stand mount.

[Elberoth]

A friend of mine used to have the Dunaudio Master Temptation ($40k?) and now has the Consequence Limited Edition ($70k?).

I can only say I much prefered my S5 mk2 on every single aspect of sound quality.

[Showroom Dummies]

@AJR:. What electronic music do you listen to? I like similar music to you from what you said in an earlier post.

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[Mr Peabody]

Yeah, what I should have expected on a "Magico" forum, LOL

Some of the newer lines of Dynaudio are a bit easier but typically they require an amp with ample current to sound the way they were intended. The best I've heard Dyn sound was when our dealer used to carry Krell.

A friend of mine used to have the Dunaudio Master Temptation ($40k?) and now has the Consequence Limited Edition ($70k?).

I can only say I much prefered my S5 mk2 on every single aspect of sound quality.

[Mike]

Yeah, what I should have expected on a "Magico" forum, LOL

I don't think that's a fair comment. I try very hard to keep things balanced and I'm the first to congratulate new Wilson owners. We have a lot of Magico owners, but we have loads of Wilson, Rockport, etc. owners too. Magico and Wilson owners are passionate about the science, technology and engineering involved in their speakers and the world class companies behind them. If others prefer speakers like BBC monitor types out there, then all the power to them.

As for DynAudio, they have failed to innovate (as far as new two channel top end speakers are concerned) over the past 5-10 years and their US Distribution has been in complete disarray. They didn't know if they were supposed to be selling DynAudio for the German parent company or distributing for T+A and Octave for their friends in Germany. It was embarrassing walking around their room at Munich. Their staff were busy talking about anything but audio and they had NOTHING to show as far as two channel high end was concerned. Are they making a transition to CI and car audio? Don't know...maybe they are already.

At the outset, I found it odd to even consider DynAudio in the same breath as Magico. Wilson? Sure. Rockport? Sure. Gryphon? Sure. Gauder, Vivid, Estelon, Marten, Kharma, etc. are all others worth looking more than DynAudio IMO.

Back to the OP, I hooked up the S5 mk2's to the Bryston 28B3's with the VAC preamp and they came to life. Give them 1800 watts and look out! Bass galore!

[kzhtoo]

I also listened to the S7s. Holy crap. Amazing. Point was to use as a reference to guess what the S5 mk2s would sound like (dealer doesn't have them). No clear conclusions. I do wonder (further to my earlier post re: S3 mk2s plus S-sub v S5 mk2s, and also further to kzhtoo's and Mike's comments) whether adding a sub would then complete the S3s. Putting aside a potential electronics upgrade! The dealer thought that the former would bring me closer to the S7s than the S5s. Anyway, is just a side thought about future upgrade potential if I ended up choosing the S3s. My current feeling is that the S3s have enough bass for my room.

Go with S5 mk2, then add S-sub down the road. Also, do note that adding sub is not only for the extension but you are also enhancing the soundstage, mid-range clarity.

[Melbguy1]

Go with S5 mk2, then add S-sub down the road. Also, do note that adding sub is not only for the extension but you are also enhancing the soundstage, mid-range clarity.

The S5 Mk2 is a strong contender based on the OP's budget, though if I'm following things correctly he has a few more auditions in the pipeline.

As for S Sub, I would prioritize working on the room, speaker placement & upgrading amplification as Mike noted before assessing if subs are needed. My friend who owns a $500k system & owns S7's was previously using WB Torus subs. However after some expert help with speaker placement, he a-b compared his S7's with/without subs & now proffered them w/out subs. Would the S Sub sound better? Perhaps. But just sayin'.

[Mike]

David - is there a Bryston dealer near you? You have to hear the 28's on the S5's.


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[Melbguy1]

David - is there a Bryston dealer near you? You have to hear the 28's on the S5's.

Ah probably, though my own Dealer doesn't carry that line. How do they compare to the Pass & Vitus mono's in the same price territory? At this stage, my next amp will be the Vitus SIA-030 when it eventually lands. But it would be fun to hear the 28B's sing. Might have to swing an audition if I can find the time.

[Mike]

Ah probably, though my own Dealer doesn't carry that line. How do they compare to the Pass & Vitus mono's in the same price territory? At this stage, my next amp will be the Vitus SIA-030 when it eventually arrives. But it would be fun to hear them sing. Might swing an audition if I can find the time.

The Vitus monos I heard at Munich and they were singing sweetly. The Pass is 1/5 the price here and has a sweet, full, ballsy sound. Both are excellent. I just found that the more power I give the S5 mk2's, the better they perform. I think Bud might be on to something with his big Pass monos. The Bryston's with a proper preamp (sweet tube) is "holy crap" good! The speakers come to life. I hope you can try an amp with some major power. You will be shocked.


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