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August 1, 2017, 07:14 AM #1
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Integrateds with separable pre/power
Hey folks, help me with a hypothetical question. Right now I am running a Hegel H160 integrated into Vandersteen Treos. The one issue that I do have is that my room kind of messes with the bass response from maybe 60-90hz; that being the case I lust after a pair of Quatros with their integral bass management and high-pass filter that usually goes between preamp and power amp. Will eventually probably end up with a pair of tube monoblocks but for several reasons (rack space, being away sometimes and not wanting the wife to have to deal with tube issues) I might look for another solution in the near term. I can use my H160 as a preamp into any power amp, but might also look into an integrated with separable pre and power sections. The Accuphase and Luxmans have, but it's controlled with a switch, which I am not in love with - you're playing music and somebody presses the button and the un-rolled off bass is sent to the speaker amps, which would likely lead to big trouble. So I might consider an integrated which is sonically not inferior to the Hegel (and that sets a high bar right there) but which either uses jumpers between pre and power sections or a rear-mounted switch. I think also it would need to be at least 120wpc, as my room is quite large. So far I have found Bryston and Mcintosh; any other possibilities come to mind?
Main system: PS Audio P5, CAPS server w/HDPlex power supply, Hegel H160, AQ Colorado and Rocket 44, Vandersteen Treos, PS Audio DS DAC. NAD M4 tuner, Mcintosh MR74. Analog: Bryston BLP1, Ortofon Quintet Black, customized Tavish Adagio phono pre. AudioSensibility Statement interconnects. Rythmik Audio 15-inch sub. Other stuff: Sequerra Met 7's (original) Met 7 MK. II, REL Q108, Berning ea-230's, Micro Seiki BL51 with Grace and Rega arms. Too much else to list, I am gonna leave a heck of a pile of stuff when I die.
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August 1, 2017, 07:53 AM #2
Re: Integrateds with separable pre/power
Two come to mind: Ayre 5 series and Gryphon Diablo 120. The new Ayre 8 series integrated might be worth considering too.
My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
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August 1, 2017, 08:00 AM #3
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Re: Integrateds with separable pre/power
Thanks!!!! I had heard one of the older Ayre integrateds with my speakers and it didn't slay me, but it wasn't really a fair match - 60wpc is really not enough for these speakers in a large space.
Main system: PS Audio P5, CAPS server w/HDPlex power supply, Hegel H160, AQ Colorado and Rocket 44, Vandersteen Treos, PS Audio DS DAC. NAD M4 tuner, Mcintosh MR74. Analog: Bryston BLP1, Ortofon Quintet Black, customized Tavish Adagio phono pre. AudioSensibility Statement interconnects. Rythmik Audio 15-inch sub. Other stuff: Sequerra Met 7's (original) Met 7 MK. II, REL Q108, Berning ea-230's, Micro Seiki BL51 with Grace and Rega arms. Too much else to list, I am gonna leave a heck of a pile of stuff when I die.
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August 1, 2017, 08:15 AM #4
Re: Integrateds with separable pre/power
My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
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August 1, 2017, 09:29 AM #5
Re: Integrateds with separable pre/power
Can you do anything with your room, have you performed any measurements? maybe some treatments, are you using your Sub in combination with you're current setup ? just throwing out ideas before you rush out and spend $14,000
2chl : Vincent Sp331MkII, W4S STP-SE Stage 2, Kef 201/2, KEF 140, Vapor Breeze, Lumin, Bryston CD, BHA-1, Quicksilver Headamp, HD650, HD800s, HD820's, Dan Clark 1.1, Focal Stellia, OPPO 203, 105. ( Boxed up: Pass Xa-30.5, VPI Classic, Dynavector DV-20XL, Manley Chinook, Cadenza Bronze)
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August 1, 2017, 10:44 AM #6
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Re: Integrateds with separable pre/power
I believe the Dartzeel is - even has separate transformers for each section. Well, I know it can be used with a different power amp.
Brinkmann Bardo w/ EMT HSD-006 cart, MSB Reference DAC --> Linear Tube Audio MicroZOTL --> Ampzilla 2000, 2nd Edition --> Fyne Audio F1-12
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August 1, 2017, 11:12 AM #7
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Re: Integrateds with separable pre/power
CPP, yeah, I hear you. Not much I can do with the room due to WAF issues. And yes, I have measured, sadly the response anomalies are well above the sub range, and I don't want to run the speakers thru a low-pass crossover. In truth it's not awful, but.... I can obviously deal with this in the digital realm if I want to, but am listening to good bit of analog these days as well.
Anyway to clarify what i am looking for: Amp with pre out and power in. I don't think any of the ones folks suggested above have that. if you take a look at the rear of the Bryston B135 cubed or the Mcintosh MAC6700, that's what I need. Only negative for me with the Bryston is no XLR inputs, which is not a deal-killer, but I'd prefer to have at least one if possible.Main system: PS Audio P5, CAPS server w/HDPlex power supply, Hegel H160, AQ Colorado and Rocket 44, Vandersteen Treos, PS Audio DS DAC. NAD M4 tuner, Mcintosh MR74. Analog: Bryston BLP1, Ortofon Quintet Black, customized Tavish Adagio phono pre. AudioSensibility Statement interconnects. Rythmik Audio 15-inch sub. Other stuff: Sequerra Met 7's (original) Met 7 MK. II, REL Q108, Berning ea-230's, Micro Seiki BL51 with Grace and Rega arms. Too much else to list, I am gonna leave a heck of a pile of stuff when I die.
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August 1, 2017, 11:25 AM #8
Re: Integrateds with separable pre/power
Maybe the PASS INT-60. The rear panel includes one set of preamp RCA and XLR outputs,
Naim Supernait 2
2chl : Vincent Sp331MkII, W4S STP-SE Stage 2, Kef 201/2, KEF 140, Vapor Breeze, Lumin, Bryston CD, BHA-1, Quicksilver Headamp, HD650, HD800s, HD820's, Dan Clark 1.1, Focal Stellia, OPPO 203, 105. ( Boxed up: Pass Xa-30.5, VPI Classic, Dynavector DV-20XL, Manley Chinook, Cadenza Bronze)
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August 1, 2017, 12:55 PM #9
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Re: Integrateds with separable pre/power
The SuperNAIT 2 would work, but it's only 80wpc. I greatly doubt that would be enough for me. But keep 'em coming!
Main system: PS Audio P5, CAPS server w/HDPlex power supply, Hegel H160, AQ Colorado and Rocket 44, Vandersteen Treos, PS Audio DS DAC. NAD M4 tuner, Mcintosh MR74. Analog: Bryston BLP1, Ortofon Quintet Black, customized Tavish Adagio phono pre. AudioSensibility Statement interconnects. Rythmik Audio 15-inch sub. Other stuff: Sequerra Met 7's (original) Met 7 MK. II, REL Q108, Berning ea-230's, Micro Seiki BL51 with Grace and Rega arms. Too much else to list, I am gonna leave a heck of a pile of stuff when I die.
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August 3, 2017, 11:53 PM #10
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Re: Integrateds with separable pre/power
You have a room node typically occurs at around 70 Hz , it can cause a huge suck out of frequency quite wide ( in bass response terms). Try moving your speaker's out or in a little bit and if you could as suggested try a bass trap in the corners. Changing electronics and using equalization won't cure it.
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August 4, 2017, 04:19 AM #11
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Re: Integrateds with separable pre/power
darTZeel CTH8550. Can be used as a integrated or pre or power amp.
Cracking amp
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August 4, 2017, 11:14 AM #12
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August 4, 2017, 12:25 PM #13
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Re: Integrateds with separable pre/power
Keith
If you will look on the Vandersteen site at the requirements for hooking up either Vandersteen audio subs or their speakers with built in subs it would make sense to you. The HP filter has to go in-line between the preamp and amp sections. What he is looking for did not use to be all that uncommon to the point that several cable companies including Audioquest used to sell after-market jumpers to replace the u-shaped metal ones. As I used Vandersteen subs for over 15 years I made the same search he is making several times. The only one if found even remotely "reasonable" in price was McIntosh. The Treo is a very power hungry speaker if you want good bass response. It's efficiency is well over rated. I owned a pair for over a year with the subs.Main - JVC QL-Y7/Denon DL-301 Mk II, Gold Note PH-10, Jays CDT3 Mk3 , Auralic Aries G2.2, Holo May KTE, Supratek Cabernet, Kinki Studio EX-B7 monoblocks, Verity Audio Otello, (2) Rythmik F12SE, Audio Envy IC, SC & PC's, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Inakustik USB and I2S, (2) Puritan Audio Labs PSM-156 with Groundmaster City, Timbernation rack
Family Room - Oppo UDP-203, Auralic Aries, Aqua La Voce S3, Kinki Studio EX-M1+, Nola KO, (2) Rythmik F-12G, Wireworld SC & IC's, Neotech PC's, SurgeX SA-1810
Greenville, SC- Jays CDT2 Mk 3, Auralic Aries G1, Holo Spring 3 KTE, Supratek Chardonnay, Odyssey Audio Kismet Reference, Rosso Fiorentino Volterra 2, (2) RSL Speedwoofers, iFi Audio Power Station, Wireworld IC's, Inakustik USB and I2s, Triode Wire Lab SC, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Furutech NCF Clear Line, Timbernation rack.
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August 7, 2017, 06:15 PM #14
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Re: Integrateds with separable pre/power
What Jack said. The Vandersteen Quatros require this ability, as do other Vandersteen models. or of course you can use a separate pre and power amp, but I would consider a good integrated if I can make that work. One advantage of the hi-pass filter is that it will substantially reduce the power requirements for the amp, which is a good thing. The Vandys are indeed somewhat inefficient; they are not a tough load impedance-wise but they need power, and I use them in quite a large room. For the Treos, in my room, I don't think I'd go lower than 150wpc, which is what I have now. BTW there is a new contender for an integrated that will work with Quatros: the upcoming Aesthetix Mimas, which will even include a compatible high-pass filter. Should be a very good choice, if I decide to stick with an integrated.
Main system: PS Audio P5, CAPS server w/HDPlex power supply, Hegel H160, AQ Colorado and Rocket 44, Vandersteen Treos, PS Audio DS DAC. NAD M4 tuner, Mcintosh MR74. Analog: Bryston BLP1, Ortofon Quintet Black, customized Tavish Adagio phono pre. AudioSensibility Statement interconnects. Rythmik Audio 15-inch sub. Other stuff: Sequerra Met 7's (original) Met 7 MK. II, REL Q108, Berning ea-230's, Micro Seiki BL51 with Grace and Rega arms. Too much else to list, I am gonna leave a heck of a pile of stuff when I die.
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August 7, 2017, 07:12 PM #15
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Re: Integrateds with separable pre/power
Jay
That looks like an interesting option plus being a hybrid gives you a little flexibility to tailor the sound with the preamp tubes.Main - JVC QL-Y7/Denon DL-301 Mk II, Gold Note PH-10, Jays CDT3 Mk3 , Auralic Aries G2.2, Holo May KTE, Supratek Cabernet, Kinki Studio EX-B7 monoblocks, Verity Audio Otello, (2) Rythmik F12SE, Audio Envy IC, SC & PC's, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Inakustik USB and I2S, (2) Puritan Audio Labs PSM-156 with Groundmaster City, Timbernation rack
Family Room - Oppo UDP-203, Auralic Aries, Aqua La Voce S3, Kinki Studio EX-M1+, Nola KO, (2) Rythmik F-12G, Wireworld SC & IC's, Neotech PC's, SurgeX SA-1810
Greenville, SC- Jays CDT2 Mk 3, Auralic Aries G1, Holo Spring 3 KTE, Supratek Chardonnay, Odyssey Audio Kismet Reference, Rosso Fiorentino Volterra 2, (2) RSL Speedwoofers, iFi Audio Power Station, Wireworld IC's, Inakustik USB and I2s, Triode Wire Lab SC, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Furutech NCF Clear Line, Timbernation rack.
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October 4, 2017, 04:53 AM #16
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Re: Integrateds with separable pre/power
The Mimas looks fantastic but apparently will not have a set of fixed-level preamp outputs, which happens to be something else I need. (no tape loop or fixed outs.. one my life's main pet peeves, along with traffic circles. ) Still kind of where I was, otherwise - Bryston and Mac will work, others not. I am leaning towards just taking the plunge and going with separates.
Main system: PS Audio P5, CAPS server w/HDPlex power supply, Hegel H160, AQ Colorado and Rocket 44, Vandersteen Treos, PS Audio DS DAC. NAD M4 tuner, Mcintosh MR74. Analog: Bryston BLP1, Ortofon Quintet Black, customized Tavish Adagio phono pre. AudioSensibility Statement interconnects. Rythmik Audio 15-inch sub. Other stuff: Sequerra Met 7's (original) Met 7 MK. II, REL Q108, Berning ea-230's, Micro Seiki BL51 with Grace and Rega arms. Too much else to list, I am gonna leave a heck of a pile of stuff when I die.
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October 11, 2017, 04:56 AM #17
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Re: Integrateds with separable pre/power
Someone just mentioned to me that Ayre can install the requisite filter in their integrateds... can anyone confirm? That would be a nice solution, if so. The Ax-5 Twenty looks great, only thing I might want that it doesn't have is a set of preamp outs, but I can live with that.
Main system: PS Audio P5, CAPS server w/HDPlex power supply, Hegel H160, AQ Colorado and Rocket 44, Vandersteen Treos, PS Audio DS DAC. NAD M4 tuner, Mcintosh MR74. Analog: Bryston BLP1, Ortofon Quintet Black, customized Tavish Adagio phono pre. AudioSensibility Statement interconnects. Rythmik Audio 15-inch sub. Other stuff: Sequerra Met 7's (original) Met 7 MK. II, REL Q108, Berning ea-230's, Micro Seiki BL51 with Grace and Rega arms. Too much else to list, I am gonna leave a heck of a pile of stuff when I die.
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October 11, 2017, 07:09 AM #18
Re: Integrateds with separable pre/power
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October 11, 2017, 07:14 AM #19
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Re: Integrateds with separable pre/power
Doesn't look like it would work, at least not without some mods, and not much of a space-saver. Also, I am rich, but probably not quite that rich
Main system: PS Audio P5, CAPS server w/HDPlex power supply, Hegel H160, AQ Colorado and Rocket 44, Vandersteen Treos, PS Audio DS DAC. NAD M4 tuner, Mcintosh MR74. Analog: Bryston BLP1, Ortofon Quintet Black, customized Tavish Adagio phono pre. AudioSensibility Statement interconnects. Rythmik Audio 15-inch sub. Other stuff: Sequerra Met 7's (original) Met 7 MK. II, REL Q108, Berning ea-230's, Micro Seiki BL51 with Grace and Rega arms. Too much else to list, I am gonna leave a heck of a pile of stuff when I die.
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October 11, 2017, 07:29 PM #20
Re: Integrateds with separable pre/power
Le Roy
Austin, Tx : Soulution 520 preamp, 501 mono blocks, 541 SACD/560 DAC w/ Network Streaming, Raidho D3.1, Lumin U1, Uptone Audio Modded Mac Mini w/ MMK fanless kit & JS-2 LPS, Regen, Ansuz DTC loom (complete), Oppo 105D, QNAP TS-451+
Chicagoland : Soulution 725 preamp, 711 stereo amp, 541 SACD/560 DAC w/ Network Streaming, Raidho D5.1, Naim UnitiServe 2TB, Aurender W-20 Ansuz DTC later generation wire, Teac X1000 R2R, QNAP TS-451+
Foundation:
Raidho Rack system, Ansuz DTC Mainz8, Ansuz (2) Supreme Mainz D8 Distribution, 20 amp dedicated outlets via subpanel
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October 11, 2017, 10:59 PM #21
Re: Integrateds with separable pre/power
Le Roy, I first bought the 520 pre in /12, I now have the 511 & the 560. I can't justify the price of the 7 series but I can fully relate to your statement above.
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December 21, 2017, 12:41 PM #22
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Re: Integrateds with separable pre/power
Decided... Going with the Ayre Kx-5 Twenty pre. Will keep my Hegel for now as a power amp, replace it down the line with something., probably tubed. I would have gone with the PS Audio BHK pre but in my setup I really gotta have the fixed-level outputs. Auditioned the Ayre with my speakers at Audio Connection in NJ and it was just amazing.
Main system: PS Audio P5, CAPS server w/HDPlex power supply, Hegel H160, AQ Colorado and Rocket 44, Vandersteen Treos, PS Audio DS DAC. NAD M4 tuner, Mcintosh MR74. Analog: Bryston BLP1, Ortofon Quintet Black, customized Tavish Adagio phono pre. AudioSensibility Statement interconnects. Rythmik Audio 15-inch sub. Other stuff: Sequerra Met 7's (original) Met 7 MK. II, REL Q108, Berning ea-230's, Micro Seiki BL51 with Grace and Rega arms. Too much else to list, I am gonna leave a heck of a pile of stuff when I die.
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AudioShark forum is a leading forum site for High End Audio Discussion, Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater System Discussion, Best Home Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater Installation Discussion etc.
The AudioShark forum was created for sharing the passion of high-end Audio. We have Audiophiles from all over the world participating and sharing their knowledge. From novice to experts, you will find a friendly environment for discussing about High End Audio, Stereo System, Home Theater System, Home Stereo System, Home Theater Installation, Amplifiers, Speakers, Subwoofers, Integrated System, Acoustic treatments & Digital Room Corrections and many more.
At AudioShark, we also have incorporated an exciting Marketplace where members can peruse terrific buys on used gear, as well as meet dealers and discuss the purchase of new gear.
We are as crazy about this hobby as you are! So come on in and join us! Audioshark.org the Friendliest Audio Forum!
Industry Participation Disclosure : The owner and administrator of Audioshark is the owner of Suncoast Audio LLC in Sarasota Florida. Suncoast Audio has a full brick and mortar presence in Sarasota with several great show rooms with many world class brands. More information can be found at http://www.suncoastaudio.com
Audioshark is a community of like minded individuals. Audioshark welcomes participation from all manufacturers and owners of all brands and products. It is our belief that online forums provide a community of like minded audiophiles and music lovers to encourage the growth of this wonderful hobby.
Sincerely,
The Audioshark.org Team
I upgraded the power supply on my Gigafoil v4 to a Weiss PSU 102. It’s very nice step up. But with the new model, you’re looking at $2000 before even investing in a SOTA linear power supply.
GigaFoil v4 Inline Ethernet Filter