TAD CR-1's with powerful tube amps like ARC REF 250's ? ...

[joeinid]

I am wondering if anyone has any experience with TADs and fairly high powered tube amps like an ARC REF 150 or ARC REF 250's. I am thinking of dedicating my CR-1's to an all vinyl, all tube setup and ARC is high on my list as well as a Manley Steelhead as the possible only preamp, eventually leading to a REF 10 + REF 250 combo. Any thoughts? Thanks!

[cmalak]

Joe...obviously can't help you on the ARC -TAD combo as I have not heard the TADs and you also know that I am an ARC fan but looking through JA's measurement's section from his review of the CR-1's suggests that they are not current-hungry speakers generally (remaining above 7.5 ohms for much of the mid/treble ranges) and only dipping to around 4 ohms bet 40 and 225 Hz. The only wrinkle is that at 34hz the speakers present a 5ohm load and a -48 degree capacitative phase angle, which presents a tough load (current demand) on the partnering amp. So that low bass area may be the only place the ARC amps may have a tough time delivering enough current. My guess is they should deliver enough current on most of the music you listen to so that there ought not be any tonal aberrations from that combo. Just remember though that within the firmament of tube gear, ARC tends to be on the neutral end of the spectrum so if you are looking for more traditional tubey sound, you will not get it with ARC.

On the Steelhead pre, I know you mentioned this system would be for vinyl only and so the Steelhead acting as both phono and line stage would be fine but in case you rethink that assumption, the Steelhead has only 1 line level input so you would only be able to accommodate one other source beyond vinyl. Finally, from what I remember of the Steelhead reviews and user comments I have read in the past, the Steelhead can tilt towards an analytical sound signature.

[joeinid]

Wow. Thank you Cyril. Would the REF 2SE be less analytical than the Steelhead? I think the benefits of vinyl with the ARC may balance out. Better sources I hear now through the TADs are amazing so that's why I am thinking about this combo.

[cmalak]

Joe...the Ref 2SE does not have volume control so you would still need a linestage for vol control to partner with the REF2SE. If you go with the REF 5 SE that would put the pair at $26K at list I believe. As for the comparison bet Ref 2SE and the Steelhead, I can only repeat what I have read in reviews as I have not heard either personally but the term "analytical" does not show up in any reviews or user commentary on the typical forums as it relates to the 2SE. Take that for what it's worth which is not much. If you can hear for yourself in your system that would be the best way to judge. I would also consider the excellent Zesto phono for much less coin.

[joeinid]

Thank you Cyril. I still have an incoming Dag preamp and the Dart with MC input so I'll need to figure out which ways I want to go with my crazy ideas.

[cmalak]

Looking forward to your thoughts when the D'Ag Momentum pre arrives.

[joeinid]

I am sure it will be awesome. It's getting very close. ...

Looking forward to your thoughts when the D'Ag Momentum pre arrives.

[sharkmouth]

Hey Joe, I'm loving the way this may go & great thought of putting gear together/planning ahead. Have never had the pleasure of hearing the TAD's,ARC, yes, great gear but still susceptible to the great tube failure merry go round, but the sound, has to be good. The closest I think I came in replicating the sound from yours & JT's expressions on the tone/signature of the TAD's was when I auditioned the ARC gear & everything was run into Kharma Classique speakers, was a very revealing & absolutely lovely experience with the tube goodness in the melee.

[Mike]

I love the idea Joe. When it comes to phonostages, I will happily defer to Jeff. I love my Zesto!! I would put that with a REF5SE in a heartbeat. But - I wouldn't shy away from owning the Steelhead. I'd love the options it brings. Maybe Jeff can comment on the Steelhead.

[bobwah]

Thought I would revive this thread because I am also interested in tube designs for the tad ref speakers..
Did y get a chance to try an all tube setup on the cr1 Joe?

I may be able to get a set of Robert Koda k70 for audition which I really like the look of.. Only 70watts but a hybrid design with solid state output and pure class A.
Looks amazing gear.


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[joeinid]

Hi Bob,

Wow, a blast from the past.

I did at several points use all tube gear on the TAD CR-1's. I've had the CJ Gat and ART monos on them as well as a Music Reference RM-200T. I've had McIntosh on them too. I'm sure that the Robert Koda gear is amazing. All the tube gear helped make the TAD's sound better, to my ear, but I have to be honest, I sold the CR-1's after almost 2 years. I prefer slightly warmer, less forward speakers. The TAD's do some amazing things but require ultimate care in setup and gear choices.

[Dpod4]

I just hooked up the Air Tight ATM 3011R mono amps with my TAD CR1s. Using Air Tight ATC-2 preamp for now until I bring my ate2001 here.

I listened to some familiar hi Rez files with previous solid state amps. Then switched in the Air Tight amps. At about the 10 second mark the inside my head voice exclaimed "Oh My!" My foot started tapping and I relaxed into the music. Three dramatic things occurred:

1. The midrange kicked in. Vocals took on body and warmth.

2. The bottom end got some bloom. Causing the whole balance to shift toward the midrange. If a clock stood for frequency ranges assume 6-10am was the bass, 10-2 the midrange, and 2-6pm the treble. Before the 3011R monos the entire frequency range was present present - I could see every hour. My attention was drawn to 3-5pm. So effortless and transparent details dancing around. I was aware of the rest of the hours on the clock but my attention was drawn to the afternoon hours. With the Air Tight amps, the effortless presentation of the treble didn't disappear but 9-11 am really got magical so my experience feels like a mid-morning to mid-afternoon experience. Which took me out of analyzing to simply enjoying. In fact wife walked in and came over and sat next to me and listened to a few songs tapping her toes. That's the first time in 25 years she has done that. The music became very easy to listen to. It has flow.

3. No surprise - soundstage spread out up to and fro. A wrap around effect in front of me. Especially laterally with decay being more natural.

My room has lots of windows and hard surfaces so this new warmth and ease is very very welcome. I knew the TADs were special. I never they could be this musical. Long live Air Tight.




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[joeinid]

OMG! Now that would be something to hear. I bet that combo is insane. Well done!

[Paul]

I just hooked up the Air Tight ATM 3011R mono amps with my TAD CR1s. Using Air Tight ATC-2 preamp for now until I bring my ate2001 here.

I listened to some familiar hi Rez files with previous solid state amps. Then switched in the Air Tight amps. At about the 10 second mark the inside my head voice exclaimed "Oh My!" My foot started tapping and I relaxed into the music. Three dramatic things occurred:

1. The midrange kicked in. Vocals took on body and warmth.

2. The bottom end got some bloom. Causing the whole balance to shift toward the midrange. If a clock stood for frequency ranges assume 6-10am was the bass, 10-2 the midrange, and 2-6pm the treble. Before the 3011R monos the entire frequency range was present present - I could see every hour. My attention was drawn to 3-5pm. So effortless and transparent details dancing around. I was aware of the rest of the hours on the clock but my attention was drawn to the afternoon hours. With the Air Tight amps, the effortless presentation of the treble didn't disappear but 9-11 am really got magical so my experience feels like a mid-morning to mid-afternoon experience. Which took me out of analyzing to simply enjoying. In fact wife walked in and came over and sat next to me and listened to a few songs tapping her toes. That's the first time in 25 years she has done that. The music became very easy to listen to. It has flow.

3. No surprise - soundstage spread out up to and fro. A wrap around effect in front of me. Especially laterally with decay being more natural.

My room has lots of windows and hard surfaces so this new warmth and ease is very very welcome. I knew the TADs were special. I never they could be this musical. Long live Air Tight.




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Interesting read. Love my AirTight as well


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[bobwah]

Air tight and Tad.. great setup!
Thanks for sharing


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[Alpinist]

I am wondering if anyone has any experience with TADs and fairly high powered tube amps like an ARC REF 150 or ARC REF 250's. I am thinking of dedicating my CR-1's to an all vinyl, all tube setup and ARC is high on my list as well as a Manley Steelhead as the possible only preamp, eventually leading to a REF 10 + REF 250 combo. Any thoughts? Thanks!

Hi Joe,

I can't speak to the CR-1's but the Ref 10 preamp paired with the Ref 250 SE monoblocks is my favorite tube preamp and amp combo. Absolutely liquid sounding while being neutral in the midrange and treble. The soundstage is both very wide and deep with holographic imaging. Tight and robust bass with outstanding dynamics. When I heard this combo with the Vandersteen 7's, I was in heaven!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyZ42vkUFm4

Best,
Ken

[joeinid]

Hi Ken,

That Ref 10 is calling me but you know my needs/wants. Maybe someday.

[Alpinist]

Hi Ken,

That Ref 10 is calling me but you know my needs/wants. Maybe someday.

The Ref 10/Ref 250 SE is so neutral that it can really help to smooth any brightness of a speaker in the upper midrange and treble. I don't know if this is an issue with the CR-1's. A less expensive and still great option would be the GS Pre/GS 150 combo. In a word, Wunderbar!

Best,
Ken

[joeinid]

I agree. My perception of the TADs was that way but that could have been just the way that I heard them. Sometimes I wish that I still had them to play with.

That Air Tight gear must be amazing.

[Dpod4]

Update...

Been selling and buying different gear trying to get down to less components. In main home I’m going to be running Avant-garde Zero XD 1 fully active speakers (thank you Mike). Also in main home I gave HT setup with four Audience 1+1 v3 as center channel and a pair of Raidho Xt-1 as L/R (powered by modded Marantz ma9s2 monos) ...best home theater sound I’ve ever heard anywhere (with gallo speakers for atmos and in wall / ceiling A/D/S for surrounds).

For my place in Bend I now have the TAD CR1s being driven by the Zanden 6000 integrated amp (same as the 8120 but with volume / input controls). I’ve used Zanden amplification on multiple Raidho speakers to great success so was curious about how they would pair with the TADs, especially since I thought I reached the mountain top with the air tight monos.

Well, I finally got to see what the CR1s could do if fed with magic and fairy dust. It was a spiritual experience. Even more spaciousness and nuance delicacy than the air tights but really the first time I ever “got lost” in the music with the TADs. Previously I was always aware I was listening to my system - the CR1s pump so much info through they arrest one’s attention and make you hyper aware. The Zanden kept the insane amount of detail coming thru (eg singer breathing in) but created a musically coherent soundscape and flow that became more than the information coming through. It was one of those rare times (second that I can remember in my life) where I felt like I was part of the music just fully enjoying and experiencing it. So I think my flagship system is going to stay this way and will take these items off the market.

[joeinid]

Congratulations Darrin.

I’m so happy for you. I’m sure Zanden is an awesome match for the TAD speakers. Once you figure out what works, they are magical like you mentioned.

Enjoy!

[Hounddog]

Interesting combo. I ran my CR1s with mc 2301s, but much prefer the accuphase sound with them. I suspect that Zanden would be a lovely combination. They make lovely looking electronics, but I haven’t had the pleasure to hear them.


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[Dpod4]

Thank you!

[veindoc]

Nice combo-if room allows another 1-2 feet separation on CR-1s you will truly gain a more immersive soundstage.(9-10 ft. way better than 6-7 ft center to center) It took my 9 amps before my TADs really sang with no brightness only sweetness. Glad I found my Viola symphony but I did try Zanden and they were also to my memory a lovely match.