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  1. #1
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    Congrats Lumin on MQA!

    Congrats to the great folks at Lumin for their MQA certification.

    http://www.mqa.co.uk/customer/our-partners

    I'm going to bring home an A1 next week. I miss the liquid warm sounds of the A1. I went back and read my review (link here: Lumin Review) and got to thinking "why don't I have the A1 in my system at home?" Next week, it's coming home!
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

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  2. #2
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    Re: Congrats Lumin on MQA!

    Thanks Mike, but we are still working towards achieving certification.
    Peter Lie
    LUMIN Firmware Lead

  3. #3
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    Re: Congrats Lumin on MQA!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Congrats to the great folks at Lumin for their MQA certification.

    http://www.mqa.co.uk/customer/our-partners
    Mike, after clicking on the above "partners" link, it also shows Berkeley as a Playback partner.

    Hopefully this means the the Ref II DAC with MQA will soon be ready to ship!

    Early on it was stated that the new Berk DAC would have an MQA light on the chassis, is this still the case?
    Le Roy

    Austin, Tx : Soulution 520 preamp, 501 mono blocks, 541 SACD/560 DAC w/ Network Streaming, Raidho D3.1, Lumin U1, Uptone Audio Modded Mac Mini w/ MMK fanless kit & JS-2 LPS, Regen, Ansuz DTC loom (complete), Oppo 105D, QNAP TS-451+

    Chicagoland : Soulution 725 preamp, 711 stereo amp, 541 SACD/560 DAC w/ Network Streaming, Raidho D5.1, Naim UnitiServe 2TB, Aurender W-20 Ansuz DTC later generation wire, Teac X1000 R2R, QNAP TS-451+

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    Raidho Rack system, Ansuz DTC Mainz8, Ansuz (2) Supreme Mainz D8 Distribution, 20 amp dedicated outlets via subpanel

  4. #4
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    Re: Congrats Lumin on MQA!

    Quote Originally Posted by Odyssey View Post
    Mike, after clicking on the above "partners" link, it also shows Berkeley as a Playback partner.

    Hopefully this means the the Ref II DAC with MQA will soon be ready to ship!

    Early on it was stated that the new Berk DAC would have an MQA light on the chassis, is this still the case?
    I believe their will be an indication light. The hold up with Berkeley is final licensing bits in the contract. They hope to have ironed out in the next week or two. Subsequently, Berkeley is saying the MQA update, which required a complete rewriting of their assembly language code, improved PCM as well.


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  5. #5
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    Re: Congrats Lumin on MQA!

    Quote Originally Posted by Odyssey View Post
    Hopefully this means the the Ref II DAC with MQA will soon be ready to ship!
    According to a previous announcement, I believe their implementation is a MQA Renderer only, i.e. you need a MQA Core decoder to utilize it, such as Tidal desktop app, Audirvana, etc. (Lumin also plans to offer MQA Core decoding, but that's a different story.)
    Peter Lie
    LUMIN Firmware Lead

  6. #6
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    Re: Congrats Lumin on MQA!

    Quote Originally Posted by wklie View Post
    According to a previous announcement, I believe their implementation is a MQA Renderer only, i.e. you need a MQA Core decoder to utilize it, such as Tidal desktop app, Audirvana, etc. (Lumin also plans to offer MQA Core decoding, but that's a different story.)
    You will need an Aurender, Lumin U1 or Tidal desktop, etc. as the Berkeley is just a DAC.


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  7. #7
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    Re: Congrats Lumin on MQA!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    You will need an Aurender, Lumin U1 or Tidal desktop, etc. as the Berkeley is just a DAC.
    From Aurender web site [Edit: at the time of this post - see update in #12]: 'Aurender music servers do not perform MQA Core decoding, therefore they are unable to deliver the information necessary for an MQA Renderer to perform "the final unfold in its analog context"'. Without this functionality the Berkeley MQA Rendering cannot be used.

    Case C:
    https://www.computeraudiophile.com/i...-for-civilians
    Peter Lie
    LUMIN Firmware Lead

  8. #8
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    Re: Congrats Lumin on MQA!

    Quote Originally Posted by wklie View Post
    From Aurender web site: 'Aurender music servers do not perform MQA Core decoding, therefore they are unable to deliver the information necessary for an MQA Renderer to perform "the final unfold in its analog context"'. Without this functionality the Berkeley MQA Rendering cannot be used.

    Case C:
    https://www.computeraudiophile.com/i...-for-civilians
    You're confusing the issue. The Aurender can now pass MQA to an MQA DAC like the Berkeley to do the core decoding (once the Berkeley release is complete). Core decoding can only be done at the DAC stage.


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  9. #9
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    Re: Congrats Lumin on MQA!

    To my knowledge Berkeley is a MQA Renderer, not a Full Decoder, therefore it is not capable to perform Core Decoding. If Berkeley changed its plan since this announcement I've not read about it:

    https://www.computeraudiophile.com/f...ence-series-2/

    Rendering can only be done at the DAC. Core Decoding can be done by Tidal desktop app, Audirvana, Full Decoder, or Lumin (after receiving MQA certification) in an optional mode.
    Peter Lie
    LUMIN Firmware Lead

  10. #10
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    Re: Congrats Lumin on MQA!

    Berkeley has developed an upgrade for their Reference DAC II which will decode MQA. It's release is expected in a week or two. The Aurender will pass it to the DAC and the DAC decodes it.


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  11. #11
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    Re: Congrats Lumin on MQA!

    Deleted.
    Last edited by Alpinist; July 23, 2017 at 03:34 PM. Reason: Redundant
    "No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
    --------------------------------------------
    Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases and Femto 33 Clock; Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and Roon Nucleus Plus; MSB UMT V Signature Transport
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  12. #12
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    Re: Congrats Lumin on MQA!

    Just spoke with Berkeley. Aurender is coming out with an update VERY SOON which will do core MQA unfolding on the N10, etc. Using that, we get full blown MQA with the Berkeley DAC acting as the renderer for that signal. The alternative is Tidal via PC which also does unfolding. Berkeley explained that the processing power for core unfolding would have required a separate box for them and sacrificed sound quality.

    At the end of the day, this is all confusing for the end consumer and dealers.

    All I care about is that my Lumin/Aurender/Berkeley customers will get full blown MQA at the end of the day. And that, they will. Congrats Lumin on MQA!


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  13. #13

    Re: Congrats Lumin on MQA!

    I'm sympathetic to Mike's comment that all of this is confusing. To add to the confusion, allow me to observe the following. The "unfolding" or "decoding" done by the Tidal app (or Audirvana, etc.) might prove far more crucial than the final rendering stage. It is the decoding/unfolding that unlocks the high-resolution we are looking for. The rendering at DAC level gives the MQA authorized sound by instituting a prescription of filters based upon hardware specific characteristics of the DAC. The rendering results in the MQA prescribed sound, but it also means that the MQA braintrust gets to hijack your DAC's designer in the crucial area of filter design. Paul McCowan of PS Audio won't allow the DirectStream to be controlled by outside people. Neither will Lukasz Fikus at Lampizator. I seriously doubt that Jason Stoddard and Mike Moffat of Schiit will play ball. If the MQA revolution succeeds, then there is a risk that all DACs will sound the same. No thanks.
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  14. #14
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    Re: Congrats Lumin on MQA!

    Quote Originally Posted by BayStBroker View Post
    If the MQA revolution succeeds, then there is a risk that all DACs will sound the same. No thanks.
    I think we may be getting carried away worrying about that. One example of a fully MQA compliant DAC system is implemented in the Bluesound products, and while they offer an exceptional value they don't sound remotely similar other higher end MQA DACs. Just having MQA certify a DAC's final output does not make them all sound the same; there are still many differences apparently due to varying levels of build quality in their power supplies design, clocking circuits, specific DAC implementations, jitter handling, etc. Some designers may still object to making changes which MQA might require, but that doesn't mean that all MQA certified DACs sound identical.

  15. #15
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    Re: Congrats Lumin on MQA!

    Quote Originally Posted by audio.bill View Post
    I think we may be getting carried away worrying about that. One example of a fully MQA compliant DAC system is implemented in the Bluesound products, and while they offer an exceptional value they don't sound remotely similar other higher end MQA DACs. Just having MQA certify a DAC's final output does not make them all sound the same; there are still many differences apparently due to varying levels of build quality in their power supplies design, clocking circuits, specific DAC implementations, jitter handling, etc. Some designers may still object to making changes which MQA might require, but that doesn't mean that all MQA certified DACs sound identical.
    Well said Bill.


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  16. #16
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    Re: Congrats Lumin on MQA!

    2 years from now, I foresee there will be an "improved" MQA rendering version 2 with all new licensing for the improved version.
    Assuming of course, that MQA still exists.
    Christian

    south: Mark Levinson No. 52 pre, Bricasti M28 amps, Lumin A1, Oppo BDP-205, Pioneer CT-43, Sony SS-AR1 Speakers, Audioquest PCs, Audioquest speaker cables, Audioquest & Iconoclast interconnects, HB Power Design Powerslave Star Galaxy power distributor

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  17. #17
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    Re: Congrats Lumin on MQA!

    Quote Originally Posted by audio.bill View Post
    I think we may be getting carried away worrying about that. One example of a fully MQA compliant DAC system is implemented in the Bluesound products, and while they offer an exceptional value they don't sound remotely similar other higher end MQA DACs. Just having MQA certify a DAC's final output does not make them all sound the same; there are still many differences apparently due to varying levels of build quality in their power supplies design, clocking circuits, specific DAC implementations, jitter handling, etc. Some designers may still object to making changes which MQA might require, but that doesn't mean that all MQA certified DACs sound identical.
    I agree. Dac's from dCS, MSB, Meridian and Brinkmann playing MQA files do not sound alike.
    Jim

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  18. #18
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    Re: Congrats Lumin on MQA!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Aurender is coming out with an update VERY SOON which will do core MQA unfolding on the N10, etc. Using that, we get full blown MQA with the Berkeley DAC acting as the renderer for that signal.
    Lumin S1 / A1 / T1 / D1 (in beta stage, going through certification) can also output MQA Core to its BNC-SPDIF if set to MQA Digital Output Mode (in addition to full MQA decoding to its analog outputs). Using it should also enable Berkeley to activate its MQA Rendering functionality.

    We have also plans for Lumin U1 to output MQA Core (in alpha stage, not yet submitted to certification) to any of its digital output.
    Peter Lie
    LUMIN Firmware Lead

  19. #19
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    Re: Congrats Lumin on MQA!

    Quote Originally Posted by wklie View Post
    Lumin S1 / A1 / T1 / D1 (in beta stage, going through certification) can also output MQA Core to its BNC-SPDIF if set to MQA Digital Output Mode (in addition to full MQA decoding to its analog outputs). Using it should also enable Berkeley to activate its MQA Rendering functionality.

    We have also plans for Lumin U1 to output MQA Core (in alpha stage, not yet submitted to certification) to any of its digital output.
    Excellent! I love the U1.


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  20. #20
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    Re: Congrats Lumin on MQA!

    I have been using Tidal on my D1 way more then I thought I would since I have 1400+++ cd's ripped on my nas. I am excited to hear the D1 on full MQA!
    AMP/Preamp/Speakers: Kef LS50 Wireless, Lumin D1, Cayin scd50T sacd, Technics 1200 Denon DL160, Jolida D9, HP Laptop, LH Labs VI Infinity, Cables: Wireworld Eclipse & Silver IC, Platinum USB. W4S recovery.

  21. #21
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    Re: Congrats Lumin on MQA!

    Quote Originally Posted by wklie View Post
    Lumin S1 / A1 / T1 / D1 (in beta stage, going through certification) can also output MQA Core to its BNC-SPDIF if set to MQA Digital Output Mode (in addition to full MQA decoding to its analog outputs). Using it should also enable Berkeley to activate its MQA Rendering functionality.

    We have also plans for Lumin U1 to output MQA Core (in alpha stage, not yet submitted to certification) to any of its digital output.
    Ok, it appears Peter is correct. I spent the last two days trying to unravel this MQA mess. It appears that Berkeley changed direction late in the game and instead of having core unfolding, it is just going to do MQA rendering. Berkeley said full core MQA unfolding negatively affected the sound of PCM too much and would have required another box add on!

    Therefore, in order to get full MQA, the Berkeley will require a PC or MAC running Audinrvana or Tidal desktop app. Berkeley is working closely with Aurender to see if they can get the N10/W20 to do the core unfolding. Aurender told me "we are investigating."

    Peter above has indicated Lumin is working to get MQA core from the U1. That would be a nice alternative to a Mac/PC.

    So, if Berkeley REF2 users want full MQA, they will have to wait and see if Aurender (or Lumin) can do the core unfolding.


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  22. #22
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    Re: Congrats Lumin on MQA!

    Further update: the folks at Lumin told me they are alpha testing the latest firmware update for the U1. This latest firmware update for the U1 will include full MQA core (unfolding) for MQA renderer DAC's like the Berkeley REF2. Way to go Lumin!

    Roon + MQA all within a year and it hasn't cost end users a penny.

    Congrats Lumin on MQA!Congrats Lumin on MQA!


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  23. #23
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    Re: Congrats Lumin on MQA!





    Way to go Team Lumin!!!! Thanks for letting me beta test.


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    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

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  24. #24
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    Re: Congrats Lumin on MQA!

    Does this mean it went through? Btw love that jsmes Taylor song. Check his kid Ben Taylor out doing time of the season.
    AMP/Preamp/Speakers: Kef LS50 Wireless, Lumin D1, Cayin scd50T sacd, Technics 1200 Denon DL160, Jolida D9, HP Laptop, LH Labs VI Infinity, Cables: Wireworld Eclipse & Silver IC, Platinum USB. W4S recovery.

  25. #25
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    Re: Congrats Lumin on MQA!

    AMP/Preamp/Speakers: Kef LS50 Wireless, Lumin D1, Cayin scd50T sacd, Technics 1200 Denon DL160, Jolida D9, HP Laptop, LH Labs VI Infinity, Cables: Wireworld Eclipse & Silver IC, Platinum USB. W4S recovery.

  26. #26
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    Re: Congrats Lumin on MQA!

    On my S1 it consistently takes right around 12 seconds for any MQA track to start from the time I hit play. Hadn't heard anybody else mention this.

    Is this normal behavior? Some necessary buffering or processing taking place? Or is there something wrong here. I've restarted the S1 and killed/reopened the app. Firmware is the latest--9.02.
    Rance


    Synology DS411+II | GigaFOILv4 + Keces P3 Power Supply | Shunyata Alpha Ethernet | Lumin S1 | VAC Master Line Stage | VAC Signature 200 iQ amps | Kharma Elegance dB11-S | SVS PC-4000 subs x 2 | Shunyata 6000/T v2 | Kharma Elegance signal cables| Luminous Audio Technology power cables | Isoacoustics OREA vibration isolators | Solid Tech racks | Vicoustic room treatments | Acoustic Sciences Corporation IsoWall + IsoCeiling construction

  27. #27
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    Re: Congrats Lumin on MQA!

    My D1 is the same thing. I could be wrong but I think it pre-buffers it for smoother operation and sound.
    AMP/Preamp/Speakers: Kef LS50 Wireless, Lumin D1, Cayin scd50T sacd, Technics 1200 Denon DL160, Jolida D9, HP Laptop, LH Labs VI Infinity, Cables: Wireworld Eclipse & Silver IC, Platinum USB. W4S recovery.

  28. #28
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    Re: Congrats Lumin on MQA!

    Happens on my D1 too worse on MQA tracks that normal ones. Also the gap between tracks with Lumin is the longest I have experienced.
    Main - JVC QL-Y7/Denon DL-301 Mk II, Gold Note PH-10, Jays CDT3 Mk3 , Auralic Aries G2.2, Holo May KTE, Supratek Cabernet, Kinki Studio EX-B7 monoblocks, Verity Audio Otello, (2) Rythmik F12SE, Audio Envy IC, SC & PC's, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Inakustik USB and I2S, (2) Puritan Audio Labs PSM-156 with Groundmaster City, Timbernation rack

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  29. #29
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    Re: Congrats Lumin on MQA!

    I feel also it now taking longer time to "load" new songs on my D1.

  30. #30
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    Re: Congrats Lumin on MQA!

    Same here....Was wondering if this was happening to anyone else..!!
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  31. #31
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    Re: Congrats Lumin on MQA!

    Quote Originally Posted by rrwmd View Post
    Is this normal behavior? Some necessary buffering or processing taking place?
    Yes. Normal. The time it takes for a music to start depends on how fast Tidal servers send the minimum amount of buffer to you. The longer it takes it means Tidal is sending data to you more slowly. In my experience this is usually not related to your Internet service provider. Tidal Masters albums are worse because they take more bandwidth.
    Peter Lie
    LUMIN Firmware Lead

  32. #32
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    Re: Congrats Lumin on MQA!

    Quote Originally Posted by wklie View Post
    Yes. Normal. The time it takes for a music to start depends on how fast Tidal servers send the minimum amount of buffer to you. The longer it takes it means Tidal is sending data to you more slowly. In my experience this is usually not related to your Internet service provider. Tidal Masters albums are worse because they take more bandwidth.
    And that is what Tidals support told me when I complained about it.
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  33. #33
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    Re: Congrats Lumin on MQA!

    Thanks for the response Peter.

    Gosh, I sure hope the situation can be improved upon going forward.

    It seems that MQA and HD streaming are picking up momentum. More and more MQA titles are becoming available. I've heard HDtracks is going to start offering MQA streaming as well. But as things stand now, to me the improvements in sound quality are somewhat offset by this behavior taking away from the listening experience. It's a bit frustrating to listen to an MQA album with big pauses between every track...
    Rance


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  34. #34
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    Re: Congrats Lumin on MQA!

    Quote Originally Posted by rrwmd View Post
    Gosh, I sure hope the situation can be improved upon going forward.
    That depends on Tidal significantly improving their infrastructure to improve the speed of sending music data to users in different regions.

    Previously people dismissed the MQA bandwidth advantage because everybody has high speed Internet access, but the truth is that the service providers need the bandwidth savings, not the users. Several years ago a music service provider used undisclosed P2P technology to utilize users' bandwidth to serve other users, fortunately this practice has been ceased.
    Peter Lie
    LUMIN Firmware Lead

  35. #35
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    Re: Congrats Lumin on MQA!

    If HD tracks does get a streaming service going and it catches on, do you know if Lumin will incorporate it into the app or attempt to? I know it's way too early to tell but IF it takes off, would it be a consideration?
    AMP/Preamp/Speakers: Kef LS50 Wireless, Lumin D1, Cayin scd50T sacd, Technics 1200 Denon DL160, Jolida D9, HP Laptop, LH Labs VI Infinity, Cables: Wireworld Eclipse & Silver IC, Platinum USB. W4S recovery.

  36. #36
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    Re: Congrats Lumin on MQA!

    This is too early to tell. It involves business and technical considerations.
    Peter Lie
    LUMIN Firmware Lead

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