Tube pre between Linn, Nord and Proac?

[Jas0_0]

Hi all,

Thanks to everyone for the warm welcome to the forum. I wonder if you might be able to help me.

Earlier this year, in part thanks to views here, I bought a Nord One Up NC500 power amp to drive my Proac Response One SCs. Currently it is fed from the pre outs of a Linn Majik DSI, and it has made a huge improvement. However, I still feel the sound is a bit lean, lacking midrange body, and verging on hard with certain types of music. I have a feeling the Linn pre is to blame.

I wondered if putting a suitable tube pre between the Linn (via line outs) and the Nord might add some much desired warmth, body and liquidity to the sound. If so, does anyone have any suggestions for something, used or new, up to GBP £1500?

Many thanks in advance.

All best,

J

[Jack]

I had good luck with the Modwright LS-100 and the Nord. You should be able to find it or the slightly less expensive SWL-9.0 in the UK for in your budget range. What tube preamp brands would normally be available to you in your area of the UK? Either in person or on-line. With either of the Modwright's, like most tube preamps, you will need to get the cheap Chinese or Russian tubes supplied by the manufacturer out of the way.

[sharkmouth]

Have you considered an integrated along the lines of a second hand PrimLuna, Triode Corporation or Line Magnetic. This will really give you a taste of the tube world that is a great sound without breaking the bank & also give you some valuable options/experience too.

[Jas0_0]

I had good luck with the Modwright LS-100 and the Nord. You should be able to find it or the slightly less expensive SWL-9.0 in the UK for in your budget range. What tube preamp brands would normally be available to you in your area of the UK? Either in person or on-line. With either of the Modwright's, like most tube preamps, you will need to get the cheap Chinese or Russian tubes supplied by the manufacturer out of the way.

Thanks Jack, the Modwrights look great. How would you describe the sound with the Nord? Also which op amp are you using?

I have to say I'm new to this tube world so not sure what's out there, or what the various options would do for the sound - will do some research on U.K. options, any suggestions gratefully received.

If buying second hand, would it be best to immediately replace the tubes? Do they wear out?

Thanks again,

J

[Jas0_0]

Have you considered an integrated along the lines of a second hand PrimLuna, Triode Corporation or Line Magnetic. This will really give you a taste of the tube world that is a great sound without breaking the bank & also give you some valuable options/experience too.

Thanks sharkmouth - are you suggesting I replace the Nord with an integrated? My only reservation would be power - I got the Nord as a high power, future-proof investment that will drive pretty much any speaker in any sized room that I move into. Tube integrateds mostly seem quite low power, but does that matter with tubes?

[Nikhil]

I wondered if putting a suitable tube pre between the Linn (via line outs) and the Nord might add some much desired warmth, body and liquidity to the sound. If so, does anyone have any suggestions for something, used or new, up to GBP £1500?

Croft Micro 25R Pre-amplifier
http://www.croftacoustics.co.uk/micro25_R.html

One of the most musical amps you will hear anywhere. Price £1400
Even the Micro 25 Pre at half the price might do the job.

Anything from Glenn Croft is worth recommending.

[Jas0_0]

Croft Micro 25R Pre-amplifier

One of the most musical amps you will hear anywhere. Price £1400
Even the at half the price might do the job.

Anything from Glenn Croft is worth recommending.

Hi Nikhil, wow those Croft amps look a bit special. Beautiful. Minor gripe would be lack of remote (the amp will also occasionally serve TV and film duties) and dual mono volume control. Though reassuring that money is going on sound, not convenience. I just read Glenn does custom mods - will drop him a line on Monday and see what's possible. Thanks.

[sharkmouth]

Thanks sharkmouth - are you suggesting I replace the Nord with an integrated? My only reservation would be power - I got the Nord as a high power, future-proof investment that will drive pretty much any speaker in any sized room that I move into. Tube integrateds mostly seem quite low power, but does that matter with tubes?

No not replace, add it into your system when you want a different sound, keep what you already have, but, implementing an integrated into the system can give you an immense looking glass from another angle.

[Nikhil]

Hi Nikhil, wow those Croft amps look a bit special. Beautiful. Minor gripe would be lack of remote (the amp will also occasionally serve TV and film duties) and dual mono volume control. Though reassuring that money is going on sound, not convenience. I just read Glenn does custom mods - will drop him a line on Monday and see what's possible. Thanks.

Welcome! Don't get fooled by the low prices.
These are very good amps that will sit happily in any system.

Another well regarded company is Icon Audio - point to point wired tube gear at reasonable prices.

LA4 MKIII Preamplifier
http://www.iconaudio.com/main-produc...pre-amplifier/


Regards

[Jas0_0]

Welcome! Don't get fooled by the low prices.
These are very good amps that will sit happily in any system.

Another well regarded company is Icon Audio - point to point wired tube gear at reasonable prices.

LA4 MKIII Preamplifier

Regards

Thanks, that looks ideal for what I need. There's actually a mark ii on the auction site right now at what seems a reasonable price. Do you happen to know the difference?

[Nikhil]

Can't say that I do. But since you are pairing the pre with the Nords I would recommend auditioning before buying.

[hifinutt]

I had good luck with the Modwright LS-100 and the Nord. You should be able to find it or the slightly less expensive SWL-9.0 in the UK for in your budget range. What tube preamp brands would normally be available to you in your area of the UK? Either in person or on-line. With either of the Modwright's, like most tube preamps, you will need to get the cheap Chinese or Russian tubes supplied by the manufacturer out of the way.

there is a fabulous modwright 9.0 anniversary here , in fact i had it in my system for a few weeks and it was pretty good

http://www.bd-audio.co.uk/used-and-ex-demonstration/

[hifinutt]

Hi Nikhil, wow those Croft amps look a bit special. Beautiful. Minor gripe would be lack of remote (the amp will also occasionally serve TV and film duties) and dual mono volume control. Though reassuring that money is going on sound, not convenience. I just read Glenn does custom mods - will drop him a line on Monday and see what's possible. Thanks.

i have seen single volume croft so they are around

[Elberoth]

Any Conrad-Johnson preamp should do the trick.

[Jas0_0]

there is a fabulous modwright 9.0 anniversary here , in fact i had it in my system for a few weeks and it was pretty good

That is really tempting, thanks for sending.

[Jas0_0]

As luck would have it, I have an Icon dealer 3 miles from me, so will head in there for a listen. They also have a second hand Audio Innovations, so will compare. Has anyone here had experience of their amps?

[Jas0_0]

i have seen single volume croft so they are around

Ok, I will do some more research, thanks.

[Jas0_0]

Any Conrad-Johnson preamp should do the trick.

Thanks Adam, I'll see I I can find one for a demo

[Jack]

One good thing about the Nord is that it is small and light enough to carry with you to stores for demos.

[blackdog]

Is there something about the sound of the Linn? I have a customer with one (different amp and speakers) and he's just commissioned a 6SN7 preamp from me to insert into his lineup. Says he can't live without tubes somewhere.

[Jas0_0]

Is there something about the sound of the Linn? I have a customer with one (different amp and speakers) and he's just commissioned a 6SN7 preamp from me to insert into his lineup. Says he can't live without tubes somewhere.

Hi Blackdog, I only have experience of the Linn MAJIK DSi, so cannot say this applies to Linn products in general, but its sound compared to other brands I have owned is quite dry, analytical and cold. It really lays the music bare, with a huge amount of detail and a big 3D soundstage, but it is quite unforgiving - especially with not so well recorded music. With my speakers, it can sound absolutely stunning with well-recorded classical music, but I find that vocals are sometimes a bit flat and grainy and rock, house and techno can sound a bit lean and lack fun.

I have read several reviews of the DSi and all seem to share my experience. One reviewer suggested it sounds a bit 'grey' and I think this captures it perfectly. However, I have also read that it is the internal amplifier that lets the DSi down, with most people suggesting the streamer is excellent - something my (long suffering) girlfriend and I can confirm having done blind a/b tests against an Auralic. The Space Optimisation software is also really, really good - I don't think I'd want to live without it now - it makes a massive difference. Also having an all-in-one DAC, streamer and phono stage with built-in room correction is really convenient.

This is why I wanted to experiment with a warmer tube pre amplifier, bypassing the DSi amp.

So I will have a look at your website...

[Jack]

A tube preamp should give you the warmth you are seeking except for maybe the ones based on the 6H30 tube. Depending on what you see and hear with you audition the Icon preamps look like they may be the ticket at a reasonable price. With the LS-100 I could tailor the sound by changing the two 6SN7 tube brands. There are still a great number of NOS 6SN7 tubes available at fair prices.

[Jas0_0]

A tube preamp should give you the warmth you are seeking except for maybe the ones based on the 6H30 tube. Depending on what you see and hear with you audition the Icon preamps look like they may be the ticket at a reasonable price. With the LS-100 I could tailor the sound by changing the two 6SN7 tube brands. There are still a great number of NOS 6SN7 tubes available at fair prices.

Thanks Jack, that's really helpful to know.

[Elberoth]

Is there something about the sound of the Linn? I have a customer with one (different amp and speakers) and he's just commissioned a 6SN7 preamp from me to insert into his lineup. Says he can't live without tubes somewhere.

It is a bit dry sounding.

The other option worth trying is changing Linn to Lumin IMO. Lumin sounds fuller and more natural to my ears.

[Jas0_0]

It is a bit dry sounding.

The other option worth trying is changing Linn to Lumin IMO. Lumin sounds fuller and more natural to my ears.

Thanks Elberoth - I really like the look of the Lumins, though unfortunately none of their products seem to have inputs for other devices (unless I missed it?) and if I'm replacing the Linn, I'll also need a phono input (or line in and separate phonos stage) and optical for the TV.

Would be great to know of any other streamer pres that will do that - I guess Naim NAC 172 would be one?

[Elberoth]

Aurender A10 has an optical, but still no phono (or line input). It is also much warmer sounding than Linn.

That (or Lumin) may your next step if the preamp alone doesn't do the trick.

[Jas0_0]

Aurender A10 has an optical, but still no phono (or line input). It is also much warmer sounding than Linn.

That (or Lumin) may your next step if the preamp alone doesn't do the trick.

Thanks - I'd not heard of the Aurender, looks good.

[Jas0_0]

Hi all, thanks to your suggestions, so far I have tried a Croft Micro 25 and Icon Audio La4 Mkii. I love the detail and separation of the Croft, and the fullness and warmth of the Icon. Is there a way of getting the best of both worlds? The Icon is a bit too soft, with plucked instruments lacking bite. But the Croft seems lean after the Icon. Could tube rolling the Icon give me more snap? Or are the changes from tubes not that marked? Thanks in advance for suggestions. J

[Jack]

If it was using off the shelf Chinese or Russian current production 6SN7 tubes then yes you can change the voicing quite a bit with various NOS tubes. Also some change is possible by swapping out the rectifier.

[Jas0_0]

If it was using off the shelf Chinese or Russian current production 6SN7 tubes then yes you can change the voicing quite a bit with various NOS tubes. Also some change is possible by swapping out the rectifier.

Thanks Jack - are there any NOS 6SN7s or rectifiers that are known to improve attack with the Icon? Or is it just a case of experimenting?

[Jack]

The ones most commonly used to get the sound you are looking for would be Sylvania's from the 50-60's. Behind that would be Tung Sol or GE. The better Mullard or Amperex rectifiers should be easier to find there.

[Jas0_0]

The ones most commonly used to get the sound you are looking for would be Sylvania's from the 50-60's. Behind that would be Tung Sol or GE. The better Mullard or Amperex rectifiers should be easier to find there.

Great - thank you Jack. I'll see if I can track some down.