Pass Labs amp longevity? Especially curious about the long term reliability of their Class A amps?

[joeinid]

I know from personal use and friends having Pass Labs amps that they are very reliable. Some of us, cough cough, don't hold on to gear very long.

Could these amps last for 5, 10, 15+ years with daily use? Has anyone here needed to have their amps biased or adjusted during their lifetime?

I ask because of a few friends experience with Burmester amps. I sold mine because my friends amps needed biasing and let's just say that service was not as kind/responsive as the spectacular service I and friends have received from Pass Labs.

I've never kept anything more than a few years and wonder how a hot running amp fares over the long haul and what's needed to keep it in tip top shape.

Thoughts?

[The Sandman]

According to Pass, their amps can last 5,10, 15+ years in continuous (i.e. never turned off) use. I don't have any reason to doubt them.

[Audiophon]

I kept my Pass XA 100.5 happily for 7 years without any issues. Since the beginning both mono blocks were a bit too much biased into class A (meter at 11.30 in stead of 12.00) without any issue on the sound obviously. The bias never changed over the years.




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[Mike]

I see no reason why they shouldn't keep going for many long years. The guy who designs them, some guy named Nelson something or another, yeah, I heard he knows his stuff.

I had a X350.8, but some guy bought it on the spot on Saturday. Some guy named Mark. Some guy on our forum. MDP. But fail not, another has been ordered!

I will say this - the X350.8 is the best amp I've ever owned in the $14-20k range.

It drives any speaker, has sweetness, speed, amazing bass control, gorgeous mids, top build quality, a pretty blue meter, creates a HUGE soundstage and does NOTHING wrong. NOTHING.

With the M3's and S3 mk2's, maybe even S5 mk2's, I doubt it ever leaves class A.

I just wish I had my ARC REF5SE to pair with it.


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[joeinid]

When the dust settles, the X350.8 is HIGH on my list. I hear my friend Bruce's amp all the time. Damn, what a sweet, powerful, airy, three dimensional and wonderful amp. Yes, it gets warm and yes it's worth it. Just looking for others experience. Thanks!

[Kuoppis]

I will say this - the X350.8 is the best amp I've ever owned in the $14-20k range.

It drives any speaker, has sweetness, speed, amazing bass control, gorgeous mids, top build quality, a pretty blue meter, creates a HUGE soundstage and does NOTHING wrong. NOTHING.

With the M3's and S3 mk2's, maybe even S5 mk2's, I doubt it ever leaves class A.

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Mike, can you stop it please - just upgrading the S3s.


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[Mike]

Mike, can you stop it please - just upgrading the S3s.


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Tee hee.


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[Kuoppis]

Tee hee.


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Have already asked for a quote though...


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[Mike]

Have already asked for a quote though...


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Nice! You will not be disappointed. I give it a 10/10.


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[PeterA]

I was told that if one sends an amp back to Pass for repair, they simply fix it on the spot and there is no wait because it is such a rare occurrence. Pass service is extraordinary and I have the feeling that very few items are ever returned for adjustment or repair.

I have had my current XA160.5s now for 7+ years. Not a single problem ever with daily use.

[laynesaddiction]

In the past we have used a variety of Pass X-series amps and preamps with absolutely no issues. I think the longest we ran one particular unit was about 5 years, so it doesn't hit your ask for longer periods, but again, all units were rock solid during their entire tenure.

And yes, Mike, the X350.8 is a rare gem in its category. A steal IMHO.

[metaphacts]

I have had a PASS Aleph 3 in service since just before CES 1995 with no issues whatsoever.

[BlueFox]

My Pass gear is entering year 5, and no issues so far. However, I have noticed that earlier the amps had to run 24 hours or so to sound the best, but now seem to get there in around 5 hours. Or maybe my hearing has just deteriorated enough so it sounds that way.

[aardvarkbark]

....I have noticed that earlier the amps had to run 24 hours or so to sound the best, but now seem to get there in around 5 hours....

I've been dealing with healthcare legislation arguments all day, so maybe my mind's a bit fuzzy....do you have to have your amp on for 5 hrs before it reaches optimal sonics, or does it have to be playing music for that long first?

I have their INT-250 that I shut down every night when going to bed, and I'm not aware of much dramatic sonic improvement over any amount of time after I fire her up the next day; she sounds fairly spectacular from the get go. Then again, I've never noticed much improvement after a red wine has been allowed to 'breath' either, so maybe I'm just sensory challenged.

[The Sandman]

INT-250 is Class AB. The AB amps don't seem to have the same warm-up requirements as the Class A amps, which definitely need some amount of time on to sound their best. To me, there are actually two points in time where the sound improves - after 30 minutes to an hour the size of the soundstage blooms and the perceived volume increases. Some time after that, depending on what you're listening to and at what volume, the warmth of the amps blooms as well. I've noted this effect with Point 5, Point 8, and XS series Class A amps.

[Audioseduction]

I allow my XA160.5 amps to warm up 4-5 hours and then play music for about a hour and then they are ready! I purchased my amps in 2009 and experience no issues.

[BlueFox]

I've been dealing with healthcare legislation arguments all day, so maybe my mind's a bit fuzzy....do you have to have your amp on for 5 hrs before it reaches optimal sonics, or does it have to be playing music for that long first?

I have their INT-250 that I shut down every night when going to bed, and I'm not aware of much dramatic sonic improvement over any amount of time after I fire her up the next day; she sounds fairly spectacular from the get go. Then again, I've never noticed much improvement after a red wine has been allowed to 'breath' either, so maybe I'm just sensory challenged.

I start playing music right after turning the amps on. No sense in wasting electrons.

[PeterA]

I allow my XA160.5 amps to warm up 4-5 hours and then play music for about a hour and then they are ready! I purchased my amps in 2009 and experience no issues.

XA160.5/XP20 is a great combination. I turn mine on ahead of time, 1-4 hours depending on the season, and then listen for a while. The sound does improve. In the winter months, I may keep them on for the entire weekend and turn off the heat in my listening room. I almost never listen right after turning them on.

[BruceLet]

I hope my 350.8 lasts a very long time. I can't imagine what could beat it anywhere near it's price point. I'm loving it with my Salon 2s. My Pass and my Salons are going nowhere.

[BruceLet]

When the dust settles, the X350.8 is HIGH on my list. I hear my friend Bruce's amp all the time. Damn, what a sweet, powerful, airy, three dimensional and wonderful amp. Yes, it gets warm and yes it's worth it. Just looking for others experience. Thanks!

Joe....This is the itch you will want to scratch.

[joeinid]

Bruce!

My inspiration

Love that combo you have.

I'm glad you gave that amp a spin. Definitely a keeper.

I hope my 350.8 lasts a very long time. I can't imagine what could beat it anywhere near it's price point. I'm loving it with my Salon 2s. My Pass and my Salons are going nowhere.

Joe....This is the itch you will want to scratch.

[MDP]

I see no reason why they shouldn't keep going for many long years. The guy who designs them, some guy named Nelson something or another, yeah, I heard he knows his stuff.

I had a X350.8, but some guy bought it on the spot on Saturday. Some guy named Mark. Some guy on our forum. MDP. But fail not, another has been ordered!

I will say this - the X350.8 is the best amp I've ever owned in the $14-20k range.

It drives any speaker, has sweetness, speed, amazing bass control, gorgeous mids, top build quality, a pretty blue meter, creates a HUGE soundstage and does NOTHING wrong. NOTHING.

With the M3's and S3 mk2's, maybe even S5 mk2's, I doubt it ever leaves class A.

I just wish I had my ARC REF5SE to pair with it.


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Who, me???????????

[MDP]

I hope my 350.8 lasts a very long time. I can't imagine what could beat it anywhere near it's price point. I'm loving it with my Salon 2s. My Pass and my Salons are going nowhere.

That's exactly my sentiments

[joeinid]

Thank you Don. The XA60.5's are awesome.

[mikey8811]

When the dust settles, the X350.8 is HIGH on my list. I hear my friend Bruce's amp all the time. Damn, what a sweet, powerful, airy, three dimensional and wonderful amp. Yes, it gets warm and yes it's worth it. Just looking for others experience. Thanks!

Joe. I 've followed your system progression from Whatsbest. How would you say the MX R Twenty's compare to the X350.8?

Thanks

[joeinid]

Hi,

Well, I've never had a 350.8 in my system but have had other Pass amps in my system. All were spectacular except my least favorite was the XA100.5. Bass was a little flabby and overall, while being the "most tube like" as people say, IMO it had a general mushiness I did not enjoy.

I've heard the 350.8 in several systems and it was great. Smooth, big air, depth, ballsy, power and control with a giant value for the cost of admission.

The MXR-20s are in a league by themselves, especially with the KXR-20 preamp. To my ear, the KXR-20 and MXR-20 combo is as close to perfection (for my taste) that I've heard and owned. There is such a natural musical flow to the combo that is absolutely wonderful. Ayre seems to embody the best of tubes and solid state. Ayre is articulate, seems to have more definition and a more general reserved rightness to them. Obviously everyone has their own opinion. Some people have called Ayre "thin" but it is far from it. It's all there but nothing stands out from the rest. Ayre has a very natural and articulate quality to the music. While they don't immediately blow you over, listen more and more to the Ayre and you get it. The music from the Ayre draws you in and it's wonderful.

I am tube guy at heart but can't indulge with them like I need to because my system in on almost all the time. The Ayre combo runs warm but not exceedingly as hot as the Pass amps. Ayre does not make me miss tubes.

The Pass amps have a ballsyness to them that can drive a more diverse range of speakers. I feel the Ayre combo might not like some of the more difficult speakers that the Pass amps can drive more easily. I am not a fan of Pass preamps. They are too solid state sounding for my taste.

I hope this makes sense and will try and clarify if necessary.

I could easily with the sound of either, but much prefer the Ayre in my system.

Joe. I've followed your system progression from Whatsbest. How would you say the MX R Twenty's compare to the X350.8?

Thanks

[mikey8811]

Hi,

I've heard the 350.8 in several systems and it was great. Smooth, big air, depth, ballsy, power and control with a giant value for the cost of admission.

The Pass amps have a ballsyness to them that can drive a more diverse range of speakers. I feel the Ayre combo might not like some of the more difficult speakers that the Pass amps can drive more easily.

I could easily with the sound of either, but much prefer the Ayre in my system.

Hi Joe

Thanks for getting back. I very nearly got some non Twenty MX R's.

I have not heard the Ayre MX R Twenty but have heard the VX R Twenty in a demo system, paired with the KX R Twenty, driving Aerial Acoustics speakers. The dealer A B 'ed them with some Pass XA 0.5 monos - I can't remember which ones but with more power than the XA 100.5's. The Pass were driven by ARC Ref 5 SE. In that setup, I preferred the Pass and ARC pairing overall. It sounded fuller and more musical. The VX R Twenty was as you said more articulate and refined. There was more inner detail. I wouldn't have called the VX R Twenty lean but it did have less body compared to the Pass.

I had my initial shortlist down to non Twenty MX R's and a X250.8. In my previous system with Dynaudio speakers and a Cary SLP 05 pre, I preferred the non Twenty VX R to a Krell FPB series amp. The highs were less strident, it was slightly rolled off - in a good way. In another demo system, with Avalon speakers, I also preferred non Twenty MX R's to a D' Agostino Master Power Classic. The Ayre had a better musical flow.

However, the deal I had on some non Twenty MX R's fell through and I ended up getting a X350.8. Once again, your description of the Pass is quite spot on. It was more full and visceral sounding than the Ayre with great timbre all throughout. The bass slam was impressive - not so much as the older Krell type slam, I don't think anything will beat that - but more textured and less of a one note presentation. The "ballsy" you cite is an apt descriptor. If my memory serves me, the treble is smoother and more extended than the X 0.5 series, where there was still some hardness and grain in the highs. However, the midrange is not as warm as the X 0.5 series. Vocals are more clear and natural sounding but the midrange emphasis that made them so alluring on the X 0.5 series is not so much there.

Like you, I could have lived with either the non Twenty MX R or the X 350.8 in my system. I can only imagine that the Twenty versions are much better, especially if they improved the bass performance from what I have read. I wouldn't describe either as tube like. At least not in the way your erstwhile Conrad Johnson amps sounded - that is another sense of harmonic richness that no solid state amp can give.

[joeinid]

Hi Mike,

Thank you for your opinion, additional thoughts and validation on what I am hearing. I do find it difficult sometimes to describe what I hear and I have to start with what I like about something.

For me, treble reproduction is the ultimate in determining how a piece will do in my system. Mid-range and bass, of course, follow. I guess my taste is speakers tends to be "fatter/thicker" and determines what gear I will ultimately choose. Balance is key to a great system. I notice gear that does not immediately wow and floor you, stay in my system longer and ultimately satisfy more than others.

Depending on whether an Ayre piece is a "twenty" or not, mixes and matches with other brands of gear better or matched to itself. I feel the combo of the KXR-20 and MXR-20 makes something greater than they are separately. Although I will say the KXR-20 has been SUPERB with everything I mate with it.

Congratulations on the Pass X350.8. It is also superb and actually an amp I am considering for the winter My room tends to get a little chilly and the extra heat is certainly welcome in the dead of winter. It's a win-win.

The Pass X350.8 has transformed three of my friends systems. Two of which I hear on a fairly regular basis. It's a wonderful piece that outperforms the sum of its parts and hits the sweet spot in power and performance.

Pass customer service is stellar. All of my Ayre interactions have been awesome as well.

[mikey8811]

Hi Mike,


For me, treble reproduction is the ultimate in determining how a piece will do in my system. Mid-range and bass, of course, follow. I guess my taste is speakers tends to be "fatter/thicker" and determines what gear I will ultimately choose. Balance is key to a great system. I notice gear that does not immediately wow and floor you, stay in my system longer and ultimately satisfy more than others.

One of the reasons I followed your system changes on Whatsbest is because I had the impression that our tastes run fairly similar. I tend to dislike any treble harshness and also go for longer term fulfillment vs the initial wow factor. Likewise, I also like "fatter/ thicker" speakers. A lot of that has to do with the music I listen to - they are not always the most pristine recordings.

SF Stradivari were on my bucket list but I do not have the space for them let alone the budget. Did you ever listen to the Ktema's?

[Mike]

One of the reasons I followed your system changes on Whatsbest is because I had the impression that our tastes run fairly similar. I tend to dislike any treble harshness and also go for longer term fulfillment vs the initial wow factor. Likewise, I also like "fatter/ thicker" speakers. A lot of that has to do with the music I listen to - they are not always the most pristine recordings.

SF Stradivari were on my bucket list but I do not have the space for them let alone the budget. Did you ever listen to the Ktema's?

Mike - I think you will get more up to date following Joe here on AS since he is an Admin here. Joe is definitely a great source of information.

[joeinid]

I am in the same boat. I follow the music that moves me regardless of quality. A lot of it can be unlistenable on many systems. I try and strike a balance but content wins out.

It's funny, I discovered Ktema AFTER buying my Strads strangely enough. I think I had blinders on since my first glorious listening session to Strads that I never realized the connection. I wish I had demoed the Ktema but the opportunity has long since passed.

One of the reasons I followed your system changes on Whatsbest is because I had the impression that our tastes run fairly similar. I tend to dislike any treble harshness and also go for longer term fulfillment vs the initial wow factor. Likewise, I also like "fatter/ thicker" speakers. A lot of that has to do with the music I listen to - they are not always the most pristine recordings.

SF Stradivari were on my bucket list but I do not have the space for them let alone the budget. Did you ever listen to the Ktema's?

[joeinid]

AS is the place for me.

Mike is very passionate for his music and gear. We go way back and talks span a ton of gear both of us have been through. We are both in a great place now, but Mike has a greater opportunity to play around now. I envy his experience.

Mike - I think you will get more up to date following Joe here on AS since he is an Admin here. Joe is definitely a great source of information.