Budgeting your system

[Marslo]

I have 3 sources and one integrated amplifier , so the breakdown is as following:

speakers: 33%
integrated amp: 10%
files( server and dac) :14%
cd/sacd player:12%
analog ( with phono pre): 12%
cabling ( including power distributor) : 15%
Platforms, footers, tweaks : 4%

[Mike]

I'm at:

Speakers: 18%
Amps: 4.3%
Preamp: 7.6%
Sources: 33.3%
Phono Pre: 11%
Cables, Power, Racks, etc.: 25.8%


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[Mordante]

To the people that have posted their percentages. Is it what you actually paid or is it the list price?

[CPP]

mine turned out to be

Speakers: 31%
Amps: 12%
Preamp: 8%
Sources: 25%
Phono Pre: 10%
Cables, Power, Racks, etc.: 14 %

only thing I purchased new was my speakers and one source item.

[Mordante]

I bought most second hand I used new prices for this:

Speakers 21%
Integrated amp 17%
source: 37% (streamer, CD transport DAC, phono amp TT etc etc)
cables: 26%

If I count what I actually paid the sources would be by far the largest part,

[CPP]

I bought most second hand I used new prices for this:

Speakers 21%
Integrated amp 17%
source: 37% (streamer, CD transport DAC, phono amp TT etc etc)
cables: 26%

If I count what I actually paid the sources would be by far the largest part,

Can you imagine doing this over the years a person has been in this hobby. I would think sources would be at the top of the list in % of purchase.

[a.wayne]

I'm at:

Speakers: 18%
Amps: 4.3%
Preamp: 7.6%
Sources: 33.3%
Phono Pre: 11%
Cables, Power, Racks, etc.: 25.8%


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Your phono stage, TT and cartridge puts your pie chart out of whack, time to upgrade speakers ..

[Mike]

Your phono stage, TT and cartridge puts your pie chart out of whack, time to upgrade speakers ..

I know. I guess I'm a sources first guy on paper. You can't fix downstream what isn't there in the first place or something like that. LOL.

I do believe speakers first however.

Trio XD with bass horn stack ought to do it.


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[Alpinist]

Not what I expected when I did the math...

speakers = 35%
amps = 29%
preamp = 14%
source = 13%
cables = 5%
power = 4%

Ken

[Mikado463]

Not what I expected when I did the math...

speakers = 35%
amps = 29%
preamp = 14%
source = 13%
cables = 5%
power = 4%

Ken

Seems reasonable Ken. I do crack up when I see those that spend 20 plus percent on the cables .........

[RLL1]

Speakers / Subs: 16%

Amps: 16%

Preamp: 13%

Source / DAC: 20%

Cables: 17%

Power Cond. & Cables: 18% I went for a more balanced approach. If I were to follow the ratio in the opening post, I would need a 225K pair of speakers, which would make no sense, considering the equipment I have.

[4N6]

This is a great thread that makes me think about my budget if I were to start again from scratch.

Let's just say I had $50,000 to spend on an entire new audio system. What would I get? What would that look like in terms of percentages? Let's see...

Speakers: Harbeth 40.2 ($15,700 or 32%)

Amp: PrimaLuna Dialogue HP monoblocks ($7800 or 16%)

Preamp: PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium ($3200 or 6.5%)

Tubes (KT150's, NOS Brimar and Mullard 12AU7's, and rectifier): $3020 or 6%

Digital: PS Audio DirectStream DAC with Bridge II ($6900 or 14%)

Power: maybe going a little overboard here, but PS Audio Power Plant P10 ($5000 or 10%)

Cables: not sure what brand, but budget roughly 10% ($5000)

Rack and speaker stands: budget $2500 or 5%

This comes to $49,120, so a little wiggle room for other accessories if wanted.

Now, I would also consider going to a Luxman L-590AX Mk. II integrated ($9000) as opposed to the PrimaLuna gear. This would save a little money on cables and tubes (about $6000 total), which could be reinvested in a turntable setup or better DAC or speakers.

What systems would others put together from scratch?

[a.wayne]

This is a great thread that makes me think about my budget if I were to start again from scratch.

Let's just say I had $50,000 to spend on an entire new audio system. What would I get? What would that look like in terms of percentages? Let's see...

Speakers: Harbeth 40.2 ($15,700 or 32%)

Amp: PrimaLuna Dialogue HP monoblocks ($7800 or 16%)

Preamp: PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium ($3200 or 6.5%)

Tubes (KT150's, NOS Brimar and Mullard 12AU7's, and rectifier): $3020 or 6%

Digital: PS Audio DirectStream DAC with Bridge II ($6900 or 14%)

Power: maybe going a little overboard here, but PS Audio Power Plant P10 ($5000 or 10%)

Cables: not sure what brand, but budget roughly 10% ($5000)

Rack and speaker stands: budget $2500 or 5%

This comes to $49,120, so a little wiggle room for other accessories if wanted.

Now, I would also consider going to a Luxman L-590AX Mk. II integrated ($9000) as opposed to the PrimaLuna gear. This would save a little money on cables and tubes (about $6000 total), which could be reinvested in a turntable setup.

What systems would others put together from scratch?

Forget Harbeth, With a 50K budget and willing to flex between used and new Items you could get a SOTA level system by getting a refurbed Infinity (17-22K) IRS system and work backwards , with amp, source, cables , etc....

[sharkmouth]

I'd start with a MSB Select dac, fully hot rodded & do the trickle down effect from there.

[a.wayne]

Yeah Paul McGowan did that for years ( sideways digital) and then got serious ..

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NPazywXrqJo

While i can agree there are differences in Digital performance, IMO, most are making sideways moves with a big dose of placebo. Analog is a different story, so much variables there to discuss With an analog TT , that it would require its own section.

Speakers and amplifiers sets the stage , the rest is icing ....



Regards

[Alpinist]

I'd start with a MSB Select dac, fully hot rodded & do the trickle down effect from there.

I agree that the MSB Select II DAC is probably the only DAC on the market that could be the anchor component for my system. No preamp is needed. MSB M204 monoblocks for the amps and then choose your speakers. YG Sonja sounded wonderful. I bet my Vandersteen 7 MkII would be awesome on the system too.

[KeithR]

I agree that the MSB Select II DAC is probably the only DAC on the market that could be the anchor component for my system. No preamp is needed. MSB M204 monoblocks for the amps and then choose your speakers. YG Sonja sounded wonderful. I bet my Vandersteen 7 MkII would be awesome on the system too.

This may be OT (and for analog fans only), but I have issues with a 100k dac even with the built in volume control when a DarTZeel preamp with SOTA volume control and phono stage is 38k.

So I would never put that high a % on dac/pre on any system.

[a.wayne]

I agree that the MSB Select II DAC is probably the only DAC on the market that could be the anchor component for my system. No preamp is needed. MSB M204 monoblocks for the amps and then choose your speakers. YG Sonja sounded wonderful. I bet my Vandersteen 7 MkII would be awesome on the system too.

I would find it Hard living without a pre, love drive and dynamics too much ...

[Mike]

This may be OT (and for analog fans only), but I have issues with a 100k dac even with the built in volume control when a DarTZeel preamp with SOTA volume control and phono stage is 38k.

So I would never put that high a % on dac/pre on any system.

Keith - I guess my "fear" is that digital ages so quickly. Wasn't the Trinity DAC all the rage just a couple of years ago? And the CH DAC just after that? I remember when they came out, people went crazy and now you can't give them away. Ditto for the $50k CH DAC and so many others that set new prices for digital playback.

That being said, what I have seen is that MSB and DCS (and Berkeley in the $20k range) don't leave their owners behind. They provide an upgrade path and that's good!

Would I rather have a $60K pimped out Kronos Pro with SCPS-1 with a killer $15k cart and a $15k ARC phonostage for a total of $90k than a $90k DAC? For me, yes. But I consider a great analog setup worth the money over a modest one. When it comes to digital and the comparisons I've done against a friends DCS, I have a hard time making the leap from my Berk REF2 to his DCS Vivaldi. That $90k turntable rig will still be great in 15 years.

Now in a perfect world, I wouldn't have to choose.

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[sharkmouth]

Mike, we both know tt's are changing as much as digital. How long has the Kronos Pro been around? How long was the best Kronos on the market before that etc. etc. We, as the mass market swarm to the idea of the next latest greatest, it's called the dragon's tail. If we were to choose with our ears when we hear an improvement, I'm guessing the audio industry would fail quite rapidly in the high end. I think digital has arrived, the recording technicians on the other hand, well. I can't say I've heard vinyl that has made me feel any better than digital & vice versa, I've heard plenty of bad examples in both, but, when I have heard something that has been recorded in the best possible way & is not detrimental to the naturalness of the original sound, in a studio that is extremely beneficial to carrying that recording into any format, I don't care if it is either or either. Maybe you need to put the Kronos through a MSB Select II

[aardvarkbark]

The thread seems to have morphed to a different topic, but as to the original question....

First, budgeting is not one of my better skills.

My main system is Pass INT-250 integrated amp, Esoteric K03X cd player and B&W 803 D2.

So I'm at 1:1:1 for source, amp, speakers.

I have Transparent speaker cables, interconnects and power cords, but I don't think they cost 10% of the total system.

[AlterEgo]

I'm at:

Speakers: 41% (38%)
Amps (integrated): 25% (24%)
Sources Digital: 22% (20%)
Source Analog: 1% (7%)
Cables, Power, Racks, etc.: 11% (11%)

I have not realized an update of analog path yet. (% = inclusive planned update of analog source)

[Rob181]

Keith - I guess my "fear" is that digital ages so quickly. Wasn't the Trinity DAC all the rage just a couple of years ago? And the CH DAC just after that? I remember when they came out, people went crazy and now you can't give them away. Ditto for the $50k CH DAC and so many others that set new prices for digital playback.

That being said, what I have seen is that MSB and DCS (and Berkeley in the $20k range) don't leave their owners behind. They provide an upgrade path and that's good!

Would I rather have a $60K pimped out Kronos Pro with SCPS-1 with a killer $15k cart and a $15k ARC phonostage for a total of $90k than a $90k DAC? For me, yes. But I consider a great analog setup worth the money over a modest one. When it comes to digital and the comparisons I've done against a friends DCS, I have a hard time making the leap from my Berk REF2 to his DCS Vivaldi. That $90k turntable rig will still be great in 15 years.

Now in a perfect world, I wouldn't have to choose.

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Geez you could obtain a TOP QUALITY R2R for about a third of the price & listen to something that beats the hell out of digital &/or phono...

Though you would probably need another $15k to pay for a good selection of quality tapes...

[4N6]

Forget Harbeth, With a 50K budget and willing to flex between used and new Items you could get a SOTA level system by getting a refurbed Infinity (17-22K) IRS system and work backwards , with amp, source, cables , etc....

100% agree. For the sake of my consideration, I was only going with new equipment. Easier to determine list prices that way. In reality, I would look very hard at the used market as one can really increase value that way.

For me, the "ideal" percentages would be:

Speakers: 35%
Source: 25%
Amplification: 20%
Other (cables, rack, power, etc.): 20%

In the real world (at least in my home), my system has not evolved from an ideal. I have basically upgraded over time - always trying to improve the weakest link - and trying to get the best component I can afford at the time. So my current system is:

Speakers: 29%
Sources: 30%
Amplification: 17%
Other (cables, rack, power, etc.): 24%

When I look at that, I realize that my "Other" category is a little out of whack. Certainly not the next place I will look to upgrade.

[Mordante]

If I were to guess my system is about 50K euro new. If someone would give me 50K I'm not sure if I'd buy the same. I'll ponder on that for a while

Edit:

Maybe something like this, all new prices.

Symphonic Line RG10ref amp
Lumin D1 streamer
Dr Feickert Woodpecker II TT
dr Feickerts 12" 2A tonearm
Van Den Hul Crimson cart
Van den Hul Grail phono pre
Ansuz cables and power distributor
Blumenhofer FS2 mkII

More or less.

[asiufy]

This may be OT (and for analog fans only), but I have issues with a 100k dac even with the built in volume control when a DarTZeel preamp with SOTA volume control and phono stage is 38k.

So I would never put that high a % on dac/pre on any system.

I know you (and likely others) won't believe this, perhaps only the SELECT II owners will at this point, but the SELECT II is such a breakthrough in digital, that it really changes the way you see a system.

Before, people got whatever digital "du jour", and then worked their system around it. DAC too harsh? Tame it with a nicely colored preamp. Or cables. Or bass traps. Or they just didn't care enough about digital and focused in their analog.

With the SELECT II, you don't need to. What you'll get out of the outputs is as close to the original recording as currently possible. So, just add any neutral enough amps, and you're all set. A suitably resolving speaker must also be part of this, of course...

MSB was never the DAC "du jour", it still isn't, and doesn't want to be either.

The jury is still out there for the MSB Reference, but that promises to be the answer for a lot of folks' prayers, for a more reasonably priced SELECT II. So, couple that with the now mythical, hopefully still forthcoming, cheaper darTZeel monoblocks, and you have a killer system

[asiufy]

Would I rather have a $60K pimped out Kronos Pro with SCPS-1 with a killer $15k cart and a $15k ARC phonostage for a total of $90k than a $90k DAC? For me, yes. But I consider a great analog setup worth the money over a modest one. When it comes to digital and the comparisons I've done against a friends DCS, I have a hard time making the leap from my Berk REF2 to his DCS Vivaldi. That $90k turntable rig will still be great in 15 years.

Now in a perfect world, I wouldn't have to choose.

Well, you've picked my preferred SOTA analog setup But what happens to the folks who just don't want to deal with analog at all, yet still want a SOTA system? For them, $90k in an analog rig like that is just not worth the money, while a $90k digital setup might be exactly what they need to settle down.

But yeah, that last line of yours... You should have t-shirts made with that line


cheers,
alex

[KeithR]

I know you (and likely others) won't believe this, perhaps only the SELECT II owners will at this point, but the SELECT II is such a breakthrough in digital, that it really changes the way you see a system.

Before, people got whatever digital "du jour", and then worked their system around it. DAC too harsh? Tame it with a nicely colored preamp. Or cables. Or bass traps. Or they just didn't care enough about digital and focused in their analog.

With the SELECT II, you don't need to. What you'll get out of the outputs is as close to the original recording as currently possible. So, just add any neutral enough amps, and you're all set. A suitably resolving speaker must also be part of this, of course...

so are you dumping all your records to fund a Select II?

[asiufy]

so are you dumping all your records to fund a Select II?

No, I'm dumping all my CDs to fund a SELECT II And playing the records on a Kronos! hahahaha

[CPP]

No, I'm dumping all my CDs to fund a SELECT II And playing the records on a Kronos! hahahaha

Wow lets see about 45,000 CD's at a 2 bucks each ought to do it.

[asiufy]

Wow lets see about 45,000 CD's at a 2 bucks each ought to do it.

hahaha yeah something like that
straight from Discogs.com, where I keep my collection organized...


Collection Value:*

Min $104,520.33 Med $151,234.39 Max $219,882.44

9219 items in total... And I'm not even close to be done putting them all there...

[Mechnutt]

One comment about cabling. I can't see budgeting more than 10%cables and power cords on a system totaling $10k or less. Spending $1K or more on cables in lower cost systems is a waste of money that could be put to better speakers or electronics. There are plenty of good sounding IC's, speaker wire and usb cables that can be had for a lot less. Cables would be the easiest and cheapest to upgrade at a later date if you were building a system from scratch. I recently bought a pair of 1 meter XLR cables made of Belden 8402 for my son for $60pr. I tried them in my system and compared them to my Cardas Parsec's and AQ Columbia DBS 72V XLR's and I ended up keeping them and giving the Parsecs to my son. The 8402 were surprisingly way better than the Cardas and AQ's.

If any one is interested in them-

https://btpa.com/IC8402XLR-XX.html

They can also be bought here-

http://www.takefiveaudio.com/product...-cryo-treated/

[Mike Lavigne]

hahaha yeah something like that
straight from Discogs.com, where I keep my collection organized...


Collection Value:*

Min $104,520.33 Med $151,234.39 Max $219,882.44

9219 items in total... And I'm not even close to be done putting them all there...

I don't want to even know, or think about it.

[kzhtoo]

I know you (and likely others) won't believe this, perhaps only the SELECT II owners will at this point, but the SELECT II is such a breakthrough in digital, that it really changes the way you see a system.

Before, people got whatever digital "du jour", and then worked their system around it. DAC too harsh? Tame it with a nicely colored preamp. Or cables. Or bass traps. Or they just didn't care enough about digital and focused in their analog.

With the SELECT II, you don't need to. What you'll get out of the outputs is as close to the original recording as currently possible. So, just add any neutral enough amps, and you're all set. A suitably resolving speaker must also be part of this, of course...

MSB was never the DAC "du jour", it still isn't, and doesn't want to be either.

The jury is still out there for the MSB Reference, but that promises to be the answer for a lot of folks' prayers, for a more reasonably priced SELECT II. So, couple that with the now mythical, hopefully still forthcoming, cheaper darTZeel monoblocks, and you have a killer system

So, for those of us who don't have SELECT II, our preamp must be colored, cables must be hiding something or we don't care about digital enough?
For $90k, most of us here can build a superb digital system from scratch. Just saying..

[Mike]

ARC REF10 + Auralic G2 stack + AMG V12 + REF3 Phono + Transfiguration Proteus would work.

Based on what myself and others heard at Munich, the Auralic G2 is going to be killer (poor man's Vivaldi Stack without giving up much). We will have to wait until the fall.

I predict the Auralic G2 stack could upset the digital apple cart.

https://www.audiostream.com/content/auralic-g2-series

http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/20...a-g2-dac-more/


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[asiufy]

So, for those of us who don't have SELECT II, our preamp must be colored, cables must be hiding something or we don't care about digital enough?
For $90k, most of us here can build a superb digital system from scratch. Just saying..

kzhtoo,

So you don't think *some* preamps color the sound? Or that *some* cables do the same?
The scenario I posed above, don't you think it's feasible that people (not saying you or even anybody in this forum) would be using cables and other devices in the audio chain to compensate for a lacking source? Mike mentioned a few posts back the "sources first" mentality. You can't fix what was broken from the start... People try, but that doesn't mean it's the right way to do it...

Oh, and I don't doubt superb sound can be had for a fraction of the $90k. I just don't think anything gets even close to the SELECT, though. Not that I've heard.

Have you heard the SELECT II, either at a show or a friend/dealer's?

[kzhtoo]

ARC REF10 + Auralic G2 stack + AMG V12 + REF3 Phono + Transfiguration Proteus would work.

Based on what myself and others heard at Munich, the Auralic G2 is going to be killer (poor man's Vivaldi Stack without giving up much). We will have to wait until the fall.

I predict the Auralic G2 stack could upset the digital apple cart.

https://www.audiostream.com/content/auralic-g2-series

http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/20...a-g2-dac-more/


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I dig new G2s look. Good move by Auralic. Now, we are talking, esp. Vega G2, with all those features at an attractive price point. Will be an interesting comparison with Ayre QX-8.

[kzhtoo]

kzhtoo,

So you don't think *some* preamps color the sound? Or that *some* cables do the same?
The scenario I posed above, don't you think it's feasible that people (not saying you or even anybody in this forum) would be using cables and other devices in the audio chain to compensate for a lacking source? Mike mentioned a few posts back the "sources first" mentality. You can't fix what was broken from the start... People try, but that doesn't mean it's the right way to do it...

If you had said this instead of your preceding post, I probably would have agreed with you.

Oh, and I don't doubt superb sound can be had for a fraction of the $90k. I just don't think anything gets even close to the SELECT, though. Not that I've heard.

Have you heard the SELECT II, either at a show or a friend/dealer's?

No, I haven't heard the SELECT II. But I'm sure it's 9 times better than Chord DAVE and 5 times better than Berkeley Ref2.

[Jack]

kzhtoo

I doubt seriously that it is multiple times better than either of the DACs you referenced but Alex doesn't sell either one of those products. And even the two you listed are not on the buy list for the "average" buyer. The answer to good sound is not always tied to cost unless you need it to be.

[asiufy]

kzhtoo

I doubt seriously that it is multiple times better than either of the DACs you referenced but Alex doesn't sell either one of those products. And even the two you listed are not on the buy list for the "average" buyer. The answer to good sound is not always tied to cost unless you need it to be.

Jack,

You're right in that good sound comes in all price points. Hence your Aqua La Voce, a *killer* DAC, and not only for its price. And those PS Audio monoblocks, killer stuff too.

[Randy Myers]

Unfortunately I, and most of us are not 1%'ers.... actually 99% of us are not.... therefore there is no way that a DAC that cost more than my Benz would ever be considered anything but Ludacris.... however there are very good DACs that my old ears could probably not hear a difference in anyway that are a world less in price.... my W4S DAC2v2SE for example that comes in at just under $4k. I doubt that I could hear a difference between this and the $100k DACs anyway....

[allforhifi]

For me the price relation between components is not so important, but we need to be aware that the weak link in our system will determine the final result. Listen to this system with good headphones to get an idea of the quality of this system. I garantee that the quality is way beyond the price tag.



The system is aprox. 150.000€ and more than 100.000€ is just for cables! And the is a big investment is antivibration systems...

The system is from Sonus Sutor, they sell Audiofidem cables and speakers.

[kzhtoo]

kzhtoo

I doubt seriously that it is multiple times better than either of the DACs you referenced but Alex doesn't sell either one of those products. And even the two you listed are not on the buy list for the "average" buyer. The answer to good sound is not always tied to cost unless you need it to be.

Exactly the point. The two reference DACs that aren't on the buy list for the "average" buyers are 9 times and 5 times cheaper than the SELECT II respectively.

I'm not trying to start another this-is-too-expensive complaint. My initial post is a reply to the comment of "if you don't have SELECT II, your preamps/cables must be colored". I just do not get this logic to say the least.

[CPP]

kzhtoo,

So you don't think *some* preamps color the sound? Or that *some* cables do the same?
The scenario I posed above, don't you think it's feasible that people (not saying you or even anybody in this forum) would be using cables and other devices in the audio chain to compensate for a lacking source? Mike mentioned a few posts back the "sources first" mentality. You can't fix what was broken from the start... People try, but that doesn't mean it's the right way to do it...

Oh, and I don't doubt superb sound can be had for a fraction of the $90k. I just don't think anything gets even close to the SELECT, though. Not that I've heard.

Have you heard the SELECT II, either at a show or a friend/dealer's?

I think a lot of people just chase a certain sound regardless of gear or how much it cost. . I know my 1950 Martin D28, I can change a brand of strings and size and change the sound to fit a type of music. Why not audio. I harbor no ill feelings to a person that can spend $90k of a dac, god bless em, but it doesn't take $90k to make a person enjoy their music the way they like it.

[a.wayne]

For me the price relation between components is not so important, but we need to be aware that the weak link in our system will determine the final result. Listen to this system with good headphones to get an idea of the quality of this system. I garantee that the quality is way beyond the price tag.



The system is aprox. 150.000€ and more than 100.000€ is just for cables! And the is a big investment is antivibration systems...

The system is from Sonus Sutor, they sell Audiofidem cables and speakers.

100K worth of cables ...... Is that with launch and traction control ..?

[a.wayne]

I think a lot of people just chase a certain sound regardless of gear or how much it cost. . I know my 1950 Martin D28, I can change a brand of strings and size and change the sound to fit a type of music. Why not audio. I harbor no ill feelings to a person that can spend $90k of a dac, god bless em, but it doesn't take $90k to make a person enjoy their music the way they like it.

Everything colors the sound , record a live session and see , of course, some color more than others , the biggest issue is how much coloration before placebo kicks in , the brain takes over once our system gets us close Enuff to "real" , this level of "real" varies from listener to listener ...


Regards

[CPP]

Everything colors the sound , record a live session and see , of course, some color more than others , the biggest issue is how much coloration before placebo kicks in , the brain takes over once our system gets us close Enuff to "real" , this level of "real" varies from listener to listener ...


Regards

Sure everything colors the sound, my room, myself setting in the room, my tubes, my cartridge etc. etc. I get it but why should we care. You like a way music sounds to you, I could careless if its colored or plain straight up neutral. I don't see any issues at all, people and artist add color or not to their system/music because THEY WANT TO, not to please the audio forum experts. Yep the brain and our inner neurological conduits process what our memory likes and you know it doesn't have to be neutral it could very well be that placebo you speak of with some color added, or even dry or bright, or bassy or loud, but there is nothing wrong with that, its what the listener likes.

[Mechnutt]

I could care less if music is colored as long as it sounds great. I actually prefer a slightly warmer and darker sound. I use to be an accuracy, resolution and detail freak but I have mellowed and like a more romantic sound if you will. It certainly helps with poorly recorded music but more importantly it puts a smile on my face and I find myself enjoying the music rather than nitpicking the sound. I have slowly acquired gear that will give me some of that sound.

[Randy Myers]

How do you know if the music is colored anyway? It's what sounds good to you that matters. For example, my home town line (McIntosh) has an extremely strong and vocal following. They will swear up and down that it is the best sounding equipment on the planet. To me it is good sounding (listening to it all my life) but there is other equipment that sometimes cost less that sounds much better. There is no right or wrong.... and honestly, who is to say that the $90k DAC sounds better? Maybe my $4k DAC sounds better to me in my system. I have heard many system that cost a ton more than mine that I do not like the sound of at all. A great example is at a club meeting we checked out a new speaker that was being reviewed. It was a $40k speaker, and honestly, I did not like it at all, and I would not consider owning them. And I like his electronics (other than he does not have support for DSD ... dam audio reviewers )...

[Devg]

Have you heard the SELECT II, either at a show or a friend/dealer's?

What were they playing at the LAAS with the YGs ? Its not like I care much but if they were playing a Select II, I will have a tough time even justifying the reason why one would put 90k on it....to my ears, the sound just didn't impress me, forget the price tag that comes along...