MAGICO M3 - Review

[Melbguy1]

I would suggest Plugging the amplifier straight to the wall and see the results and also remember vented gives you 6db more gain in the bass over sealed , 3 woofers over one should get you fairly close so I'm suspecting a drive issue, best to try the amplifier straight to the wall....

Regards

The Isotec Titan conditioners are non-current limiting, so I don't think that is the problem. But no harm in a-b testing that option.

[Jack]

Mike

Based on his gear lineup I would guess it was Elite in S.F.

[Melbguy1]

If adding subs is not an option (being living room and all), S5 mk2 may suit your need. I understand S7s are also suggested but it may be a bit imposing for a room size that cannot add subs.

That's not a bad suggestion. I have a 24 x 16 listening room which is also my living/dining room that has an atrium leading up to the mezzanine level (similar to Barry). My speakers are placed along the long wall, so they have plenty of lateral room to breath, however I have limited options to bring the speakers out in the room. Hence a sealed box design works best in my situation. I've found the S5 Mk2's combination of voicing and bass depth/grip perfect for my needs, as my speakers also do double duty as 2-channel HT speakers (sans subs).

You're only as strong as your weakest link. My philosophy is to have a balanced system with good synergy and no weak links. Hence down-shifting to S5 Mk2's may not be such a strange option. The S5 Mk2 has the exact same midrange drivers as the M3 and shares some important design elements. And with the saved funds, you could trade up to a pair of cabinet-friendly Vitus SM-011 mono's & SL-103 pre & place them on Stillpoints Ultra 6's + Ultra bases. Then you could look at some nice cables like Jorma Prime or Siltech Royal Signature or Crown series + Acoustic Revive RCI-3H cable risers to round out your system.

[BlueFox]

Since kippyy is in the East Bay and I am in the South Bay then maybe we should swap speakers. An experiment type thing. Then again, having to pack/unpack either of those two speakers is not something I would like to do again.

[Kuoppis]

I am a Magico owner and do like the sound. Nevertheless it is striking how strong a Magico bias the comments here bear.

We have in this thread someone who has the means to decide freely and is an actual M3 owner, is coming from the fuller sounding Wilson world, and finds that Magicos can sound a bit lean for his taste. Principal lack of quality of amplification can be ruled out with Burmester and CH Precision in the driving seat.

While I find it a meaningful approach to talk about system synergy, which here has been suggested on many occasions, it is equally striking, that in last week's Wilson Yvette bashing none of the very same guys made that point in a thread about a Wilson speaker.

Yet, while e.g. the Q3 is a superbly resolving speaker, many have found it a bit lean sounding. Perhaps we have something similar here, even though from a Magico sound perspective the M3 might be 'fuller' sounding in comparison.

And while the room in question is a living room with high ceilings, we are not talking about a church or concert hall here.

What however is undeniable, if we have a whopping $70K speaker in play ($80K with the proper footers) and you basically have the option to resort to one of 3-4 amplifier manufacturers (each costing between $40-60K) or then to add $10-40K subwoofers to make them sound right, we are talking about very serious limitations for a speaker in this premium price bracket. There also must be a reason why Alon is always demoing them with subs (I generally do very strongly subscribe to the benefit adding subs brings for the mid range).

On that note, I personally think I could be very happy with the M3s, because I do like the Magico sound. Yet I am liberal enough to admit that it is not the only option there is and that the very limited amp choices with Magicos can be a kind of a problem.

Ok fanboys, now you can start the bashing. I just wanted to see whether we can get some energy going here .


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[a.wayne]

Kuoppis , dats your best post, Heeevar .......

[a.wayne]

The Isotec Titan conditioners are non-current limiting, so I don't think that is the problem. But no harm in a-b testing that option.

On a high sensitivity 8 ohm speaker i would say most wont current limit, unfortunately when you get into a lowZ , low speaker sensitivity situation most do current limit , well thats been my experience ....


Regards

[Mike]

I am a Magico owner and do like the sound. Nevertheless it is striking how strong a Magico bias the comments here bear.

We have in this thread someone who has the means to decide freely and is an actual M3 owner, is coming from the fuller sounding Wilson world, and finds that Magicos can sound a bit lean for his taste. Principal lack of quality of amplification can be ruled out with Burmester and CH Precision in the driving seat.

While I find it a meaningful approach to talk about system synergy, which here has been suggested on many occasions, it is equally striking, that in last week's Wilson Yvette bashing none of the very same guys made that point in a thread about a Wilson speaker.

Yet, while e.g. the Q3 is a superbly resolving speaker, many have found it a bit lean sounding. Perhaps we have something similar here, even though from a Magico sound perspective the M3 might be 'fuller' sounding in comparison.

And while the room in question is a living room with high ceilings, we are not talking about a church or concert hall here.

What however is undeniable, if we have a whopping $70K speaker in play ($80K with the proper footers) and you basically have the option to resort to one of 3-4 amplifier manufacturers (each costing between $40-60K) or then to add $10-40K subwoofers to make them sound right, we are talking about very serious limitations for a speaker in this premium price bracket. There also must be a reason why Alon is always demoing them with subs (I generally do very strongly subscribe to the benefit adding subs brings for the mid range).

On that note, I personally think I could be very happy with the M3s, because I do like the Magico sound. Yet I am liberal enough to admit that it is not the only option there is and that the very limited amp choices with Magicos can be a kind of a problem.

Ok fanboys, now you can start the bashing. I just wanted to see whether we can get some energy going here .


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Courses for horses. You need to always keep the room, setup flexibility, etc. in play. The M3's work in my 18.5 x 25 room without subs, so I like them, without subs, in 12 x 16 to 18 x 25 with 15 x 20 (or there about) being ideal.

It's also important to note that coming from a speaker with pronounced (trying to be PC here) bass, going to a speaker with very linear, balanced bass can sound thin.

I remember when I went from the Alexia's to the Salon 2's (for a short period), I must have called Harman 5 times to tell them the woofers were broken because there was no bass. I had gone from a very boomy sound in my room to a lean (or what I thought was lean) one.

I would first find the best seating position for bass measured by pink noise and a microphone/monitor and then get the speakers much further out into the room. Use a stand up bass test track and move the speakers further into the room until you hear a more cohesive bass (not thin).

In his size of room, gotta say, I think subs are likely necessary. It's too bad tubes are out for him.

I'll probably McIntosh is a thick sounding amp that doesn't get hot. A 452 or pair of 601's would fit the bill. No, they don't have the bass slam of the Euro amps, but they are musical and very full sounding.

On the higher end of things, definitely Vitus. SM-103's would fit the bill.

Just brain storming...

[Melbguy1]

On a high sensitivity 8 ohm speaker i would say most wont current limit, unfortunately when you get into a lowZ , low speaker sensitivity situation most do current limit , well thats been my experience ....


Regards

I was thinking of the latest Evo 3 Titan which is a very nice thing. I'm not sure how that compares to the original Titan model, so you may have a valid point.

[Elberoth]

I am a Magico owner and do like the sound. Nevertheless it is striking how strong a Magico bias the comments here bear.

We have in this thread someone who has the means to decide freely and is an actual M3 owner, is coming from the fuller sounding Wilson world, and finds that Magicos can sound a bit lean for his taste. Principal lack of quality of amplification can be ruled out with Burmester and CH Precision in the driving seat.

While I find it a meaningful approach to talk about system synergy, which here has been suggested on many occasions, it is equally striking, that in last week's Wilson Yvette bashing none of the very same guys made that point in a thread about a Wilson speaker.

Yet, while e.g. the Q3 is a superbly resolving speaker, many have found it a bit lean sounding. Perhaps we have something similar here, even though from a Magico sound perspective the M3 might be 'fuller' sounding in comparison.

And while the room in question is a living room with high ceilings, we are not talking about a church or concert hall here.

What however is undeniable, if we have a whopping $70K speaker in play ($80K with the proper footers) and you basically have the option to resort to one of 3-4 amplifier manufacturers (each costing between $40-60K) or then to add $10-40K subwoofers to make them sound right, we are talking about very serious limitations for a speaker in this premium price bracket. There also must be a reason why Alon is always demoing them with subs (I generally do very strongly subscribe to the benefit adding subs brings for the mid range).

On that note, I personally think I could be very happy with the M3s, because I do like the Magico sound. Yet I am liberal enough to admit that it is not the only option there is and that the very limited amp choices with Magicos can be a kind of a problem.

Ok fanboys, now you can start the bashing. I just wanted to see whether we can get some energy going here .


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Sure, it is not a concert hall, but it is still a BIG room (the actual volume to fill is much larger than the size sugest). The M3s are not meant for big rooms. You have the M-Pros (and the upcoming M5s or whatever the name will be) for that. M3s are meant to be an ultimate speakers for small and medium sized rooms. Put them in a room too big and you will not have the ultimate bass slam. That is just pure physics and same will happen with any speaker equipped with 3 7" bass drivers. No magic here.

And no, Magico does not always demo M3s with subs. They have demoed them in Munich last year without any.

PS. I do not think the amps are to blame. Burmester 911s are very capable in the bass department. Vitus may sound better to many thanks to their warmer, more relaxed and fluid presentation, but I highly doubt they will improve upon 911s in the bass.

[the professor]

I don't feel that the M3's need subwoofers. Yes like any speakers, imo, a really good sub will add that extra dimension.

If the M3s don't work in a room, I don't think that subs will fix it. The M3s go down so low that when you add the sub you are crossing it over in the low 30 hz range. That will not give you the feel of more bass. Extended bass but not more bass. If you cross the subs over higher I believe it will smear the Magico bass up and screw the Magico sound that the M3s do so well.

Just my thoughts.

[a.wayne]

Bingo ... !!! Pickup ur prize prof ......

[LVB]

...

What however is undeniable, if we have a whopping $70K speaker in play ($80K with the proper footers) and you basically have the option to resort to one of 3-4 amplifier manufacturers (each costing between $40-60K) or then to add $10-40K subwoofers to make them sound right, we are talking about very serious limitations for a speaker in this premium price bracket. There also must be a reason why Alon is always demoing them with subs (I generally do very strongly subscribe to the benefit adding subs brings for the mid range).

In general, Magico speakers are not more difficult to drive then Wilson, to the contrary (They are less efficient due to their sealed bass alignment, but that is another story and true in most cases of sealed vs. ported). The amp selections are not limited, not more or less than any other run-of-the-mill loudspeakers. Same goes to a sub. All speakers can benefit from a good sub integration, but none must have it. It will do very little to the actual dynamics, if properly integrated. If you are “lacking” something, a sub will not cure it, it will enhance the experience, not fix it.

BTW, I heard the M3, for the first time, couple of weeks ago. I can't imagine going back form a speaker like that to a Wilson product (sorry, no PC here), but as Adam says, this is a medium size speaker, turning it to a boom box will simply not work. If you favor quantity, the S series will still be a much better choice than the Wilson offering. But as the guy from Wilson says so eloquently (), YMMV

[Melbguy1]

I don't feel that the M3's need subwoofers. Yes like any speakers, imo, a really good sub will add that extra dimension.

If the M3s don't work in a room, I don't think that subs will fix it. The M3s go down so low that when you add the sub you are crossing it over in the low 30 hz range. That will not give you the feel of more bass. Extended bass but not more bass. If you cross the subs over higher I believe it will smear the Magico bass up and screw the Magico sound that the M3s do so well.

Just my thoughts.

I agree that the M3's don't need subs, but you're forgetting all the array of tuning options provided by the Q Sub 15's DSP-controlled active x-over, 2000 watt internal amp and ability to deliver 136db spl <1% THD @20 Hz. I suggested earlier they're an option worth considering. No one is saying Barry should rush out and write a cheque for a pair, and indeed I'd be just as peachy if he down-shifted to S5 Mk2's as I posted earlier. But you might ask yourself, if M3's + Q Sub 15's can pressurize Magico's cavernous listening room, why would they not do the same in Barry's room with expert setup? Just curious.

[mep]

I don't feel that the M3's need subwoofers. Yes like any speakers, imo, a really good sub will add that extra dimension.

If the M3s don't work in a room, I don't think that subs will fix it. The M3s go down so low that when you add the sub you are crossing it over in the low 30 hz range. That will not give you the feel of more bass. Extended bass but not more bass. If you cross the subs over higher I believe it will smear the Magico bass up and screw the Magico sound that the M3s do so well.

Just my thoughts.

When Alon showed the M3s at RMAF 2016, he had the Magico subs with them and I thought it sounded really good.

[Melbguy1]

PS. I do not think the amps are to blame. Burmester 911s are very capable in the bass department. Vitus may sound better to many thanks to their warmer, more relaxed and fluid presentation, but I highly doubt they will improve upon 911s in the bass.

Well Barry just has one 911 Mk3, not mono's. I don't agree with your view that Vitus amps would not provide better bass. Here is what I posted earlier..

Finally, although the M3's are moderately efficient @91db into a 4 ohm load, Magico speakers need plenty of power to properly control them. I don't quite agree with Jap's summary of your Burmester 911 Mk3. That amp has a fairly small 700va transformer with 130,000uF total capacitance & weights 31kg (which is mostly the transformer). By comparison my Vitus SIA-025 has a very efficient 1.4kVa transformer with 144,000uF total capacitance & weighs 42kg. By "very efficient", I mean it sounds like a big 2kVa tranny. A more powerful amp would certainly help give you that last bit of bass depth and control. However I wouldn't put the cart before the horse by considering an amp upgrade just yet. Let your speakers run in, then experiment with speaker positioning. And if you're still not getting enough bass depth and slam, then it's time to consider an amp upgrade.

And the Vitus SM-011 mono's have more than twice the total capacitance of SIA-025.

[the professor]

I didn't hear that demo. But I'm sure it did-- absolutely. What I heard with the dual Q15s was GREAT! Which is why I bought a pair of the Q15s. But that's a different discussion.

What I'm saying is that the M3s don't need subs. There is a BIG difference of sounding better with and NEEDING them. It's really easy here to get lost of the people that are blessed over the last 8 years and can afford to spend the extra $40,000 to buy Q15s to get 2-3% better sound over the 94% that the M3s do by themselves.

When Alon showed the M3s at RMAF 2016, he had the Magico subs with them and I thought it sounded really good.

[mep]

I didn't hear that demo. But I'm sure it did-- absolutely. What I heard with the dual Q15s was GREAT! Which is why I bought a pair of the Q15s. But that's a different discussion.

What I'm saying is that the M3s don't need subs. There is a BIG difference of sounding better with and NEEDING them. It's really easy here to get lost of the people that are blessed over the last 8 years and can afford to spend the extra $40,000 to buy Q15s to get 2-3% better sound over the 94% that the M3s do by themselves.

Oh. We are having a different conversation than what I originally thought. When it comes right down to it, we don't "need" a stereo system, but those on this forum damn sure want one. I thought you were trying to make the argument that the bottom end of the M3s reaches all the way down into the bottom octave and doesn't require subs. What I think you are really saying is that the M3s will sound better with the Magico subs, but you wouldn't spend the money on them for what you perceive as a slight improvement in SQ.

[Heavy G]

Oh. We are having a different conversation than what I originally thought. When it comes right down to it, we don't "need" a stereo system, but those on this forum damn sure want one. I thought you were trying to make the argument that the bottom end of the M3s reaches all the way down into the bottom octave and doesn't require subs. What I think you are really saying is that the M3s will sound better with the Magico subs, but you wouldn't spend the money on them for what you perceive as a slight improvement in SQ.

Isn't that what we, as audiophiles, always do?

[KeithR]

I am a Magico owner and do like the sound. Nevertheless it is striking how strong a Magico bias the comments here bear.

We have in this thread someone who has the means to decide freely and is an actual M3 owner, is coming from the fuller sounding Wilson world, and finds that Magicos can sound a bit lean for his taste. Principal lack of quality of amplification can be ruled out with Burmester and CH Precision in the driving seat.

While I find it a meaningful approach to talk about system synergy, which here has been suggested on many occasions, it is equally striking, that in last week's Wilson Yvette bashing none of the very same guys made that point in a thread about a Wilson speaker.

Yet, while e.g. the Q3 is a superbly resolving speaker, many have found it a bit lean sounding. Perhaps we have something similar here, even though from a Magico sound perspective the M3 might be 'fuller' sounding in comparison.

And while the room in question is a living room with high ceilings, we are not talking about a church or concert hall here.

What however is undeniable, if we have a whopping $70K speaker in play ($80K with the proper footers) and you basically have the option to resort to one of 3-4 amplifier manufacturers (each costing between $40-60K) or then to add $10-40K subwoofers to make them sound right, we are talking about very serious limitations for a speaker in this premium price bracket. There also must be a reason why Alon is always demoing them with subs (I generally do very strongly subscribe to the benefit adding subs brings for the mid range).

On that note, I personally think I could be very happy with the M3s, because I do like the Magico sound. Yet I am liberal enough to admit that it is not the only option there is and that the very limited amp choices with Magicos can be a kind of a problem.

Ok fanboys, now you can start the bashing. I just wanted to see whether we can get some energy going here .

One of better posts I've read on this forum. Thank you.

[mep]

Isn't that what we, as audiophiles, always do?

That's what I thought.

[Kippyy]

Just wanted to provide an update on the M3's in my system.

The CH A1 monoblocks didn't provide any additional oomph or changes to the overall lack of dynamic punch to the sonics. The Viola Concerto mono blocks sounded better, but still overall, no dice. Also upgraded speaker cables as well. My dealer has been great to work with, and we will attempt to re-position the M3's and see what that brings. I'll give them 2 more months or so to ensure full break-in. If I'm still not happy with the sound, I'll trade them in,re-purchase Wilson Alexias and call it a learning experience(I really wish there was a speaker in the Wilson line between the Alexia and Alexx).

My intention has never been to impugn my dealer, Magico or Wilson as brands, or to incite a Magico vs Wilson debate. For the most part, the tenor of this thread has avoided such pitfalls which makes this forum an exception to many others. I appreciate all the counsel, and hope that my experiences can also help those of you guiding other audiophiles in the future.
Barry

[Jack]

Kippyy

Have you thought about trying something with powered bass modules like the Vandersteen 5A Carbon or 7A. Should be fairly easy to get a demo in your area.

[Mike]

Just wanted to provide an update on the M3's in my system.

The CH A1 monoblocks didn't provide any additional oomph or changes to the overall lack of dynamic punch to the sonics. The Viola Concerto mono blocks sounded better, but still overall, no dice. Also upgraded speaker cables as well. My dealer has been great to work with, and we will attempt to re-position the M3's and see what that brings. I'll give them 2 more months or so to ensure full break-in. If I'm still not happy with the sound, I'll trade them in,re-purchase Wilson Alexias and call it a learning experience(I really wish there was a speaker in the Wilson line between the Alexia and Alexx).

My intention has never been to impugn my dealer, Magico or Wilson as brands, or to incite a Magico vs Wilson debate. For the most part, the tenor of this thread has avoided such pitfalls which makes this forum an exception to many others. I appreciate all the counsel, and hope that my experiences can also help those of you guiding other audiophiles in the future.
Barry

Barry - it's no worries. We welcome your participation and we look to learn from your experiences. We only want you to be happy at the end of the day. Please continue to participate in the forum (on other topics too).


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[Melbguy1]

Barry, the most important thing in the end is that you're happy with the final configuration of your system as Mike said. And if the Alexia's in the end tick all the boxes for you, then returning to Wilson is a safe bet. FYI the Wilson vs Magico feud is more bark than bite...it's just a bit of friendly rivalry like Borg-McEnroe.

However just to throw a cat amongst the pidgeons, the original Magico S5 Mk1 was popular amongst Sasha and even Alexia owners looking to upgrade due to its voicing and more robust bass (compared to the Q series). And the S5 Mk2 is significantly better & has deeper bass with more micro details, more intimate/resolving mids, more open, transparent top end and builds on the S5 Mk1's already excellent balance and coherency. Sans subs, I think the S5 Mk2 in M-coat finish with the optional S Pod feet would likely tick all the boxes in your situation. With that said, I hope once your M3's are fully run in & you've dialed in the best speaker position they come good. Great loudspeakers!

[Kuoppis]

Barry, may I ask what was your goal when replacing the WA Alexias, i.e. what did you want to change in your system or the sound when switching to the M3s? Just asking, as we're operating on a pretty high level here system-wise?

Second question, in case you decide to trade-in the M3s, ever considered the new Raidho D4.1 instead? Might be sound-wise more up your alley. Going back to a model you already had, but were somehow not satisfied enough with to replace them, appears - sorry for the bluntness - a bit uninspired.


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[altanpsx]

It looks like a burn-in issue, which i had the same feeling with my raidho d-3.1 before 300 hours, but if your speakers over 400-500 hours burn-in period, i believe learning experience completed. Trying new cables, new amplifiers, new sources is useless most of the time. Life is too short to spend something you dont like to hear.

[EmiLiuZ]

As stated earlier in this thread. The system isn't any better than the weakest link. It's in my belief that by changing a cable or two ( or doing other tweaks) can be a night and day difference. Have you tried to test the M3 with other cable-ling? Maybe even full looms?

I've experienced that just a single powercord can destroy a entire system. I would like to think that by having such expensive speakers, you'll need to have the right accessories to compliment the speakers.

It's a main concern that people always seems to either switch speakers or amplifiers if there is any issues they dislike in the system. That is a really expensive road to go, and there is a possibility that it will only enhance your system slighty, while doing cables or ground devices can do a huge difference, even in rooms that should not be fixable.

I know this is in a another league, but I'm running the scansonics MB-1's. People tends to say that the MB series is hard to handle and a lot of people has given up on the speakers. Truth be told, IMHO the Scansonic MB series is "cheap", but they can really perform as high-end speakers if you're doing things right, they can sound awful if you don't.

[Kippyy]

I was very happy with the Alexias and heard the M3's simply out of curiosity and as a potential upgrade path(I suffer from the common ailment of "upgradeitis"). What I heard in a much smaller, enclosed room was bass as good or better than the Alexias with better, ,sweet,exquisite detail in the treble. So far, this has not translated into my larger, more open listening room.






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[bthomas9]

I'll reluctantly trade you my low hour s5mk2 for your m3's. They may be a bit big for my 12x18x9. Ill cover shipping too . All kidding aside...when we listened at magico headquarters I did slightly prefer the sound with the subs once they were introduced...but prior to them being turned on I NEVER felt like the bass was lacking or that there was anything missing AT ALL!
And their room is quite large...I don't know exact dimensions but I'd guess 20x30x12

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[still-one]

I'll reluctantly trade you my low hour s5mk2 for your m3's. They may be a bit big for my 12x18x9. Ill cover shipping too . All kidding aside...when we listened at magico headquarters I did slightly prefer the sound with the subs once they were introduced...but prior to them being turned on I NEVER felt like the bass was lacking or that there was anything missing AT ALL!
And their room is quite large...I don't know exact dimensions but I'd guess 20x30x12

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Having heard but not lived with both the s5mk2 and the M3's I would have guessed they M3's would work better in your room than the Mk2's. Either way both are fine speakers.

[Elberoth]

I was very happy with the Alexias and heard the M3's simply out of curiosity and as a potential upgrade path(I suffer from the common ailment of "upgradeitis"). What I heard in a much smaller, enclosed room was bass as good or better than the Alexias with better, ,sweet,exquisite detail in the treble. So far, this has not translated into my larger, more open listening room.

As I predicted, no amp or cable change will change that. 2 or 3 months break in will not change that either. The speaker you had chosen simply lacks the cone area needed to pressurise your big room. This is simple physics.

Why do you think Magico offers Q5 and Q7 models, apart from the Q3 (M3 equivalent) ? For people with thicker wallets ? No, Q5 and Q7 are meant for bigger rooms.

You need to dial back and get the S7 (which is almost the same price in gloss finish as M3) or even the smaller S5 mk 2. The former has three 10" long throw woofers and the later two 10" long throw woofers (compared to 1x 10" and 1x 8" woofers in the Alexia).

IMO going back to the Alexia makes no much sense - there have been people on this forum that upgraded from Alexia to Magico S5 mk 1 (and the current S5 mk 2 is a much better speaker!).

IMO if you have bought the M3 from a Magico dealer, he should help you out. You should request a return of M3 and get the S7 instead. Ofc, the demo will be necessary first.

Unfortunately, from what I read, your dealer seems to be most happy pushing you more new gear instead.

[still-one]

IMO going back to the Alexia makes no much sense - there have been people on this forum that upgraded from Alexia to Magico S5 mk 1 (and the current S5 mk 2 is a much better speaker!).

.

Or he could exit the Magico/Wilson debate altogether and go with the MBL 101eMKII and be very happy.

[a.wayne]

He prefers the Wilson so why not go back , its better for him in his room , maybe the next level Wilson can work . Its a big $$$ purchase the dealer may just be way pass a refund here , well maybe not without a restocking fee ..


Btw the Alexia is vented you will need many of those long throw woofers to have the same output.


Regards

[a.wayne]

Or he could exit the Magico/Wilson debate altogether and go with the MBL 101eMKII and be very happy.

Agree , but still no bass .....

[Elberoth]

Or he could exit the Magico/Wilson debate altogether and go with the MBL 101eMKII and be very happy.

I have heard the 101s many times, and never developed a liking for them. In fact, every time I hear them, I try to understand what some people like in those speakers. The bass, in particular, is terrible. Disjointed, boomy and lacking in articulation. Even the diehard MBL fans agree that this is their weekest point.

[Elberoth]

He prefers the Wilson so why not go back , its better for him in his room , maybe the next level Wilson can work . Its a big $$$ purchase the dealer may just be way pass a refund here , well maybe not without a restocking fee ..


Btw the Alexia is vented you will need many of those long throw woofers to have the same output.


Regards

Yes, they seem to work better than the M3s due to bigger woofer cone area. Which is exactly why I'm sugesting the S5 mk 2 - a way to keep all the bass puch (with better articulation, slam and extension that was ever possible from Alexia or Sasha) AND the resolution, smoothness and lack of coloration Magico are famous for.

The S5s have an awe inspiring bass - both in terms of slam and reach (down to 20Hz in room). Check out Martin Collom's review in HiFi Critic.

[a.wayne]

I have heard the S5's and i thought it was said the M3's were better ....??

I will get to hear the M3's next week , we will see ....

[kevinkwann]

I will get to hear the M3's next week , we will see ....

The world awaits.

[a.wayne]

Speaking of , If you make it back to the planet in time you should join us ..

[Joe P]

IMO going back to the Alexia makes no much sense - there have been people on this forum that upgraded from Alexia to Magico S5 mk 1 (and the current S5 mk 2 is a much better speaker!).

Yes, and those people never got their Alexias installed by a properly trained WA dealer.

IMO, the only reason for not going back to the Alexia is it's getting a little long in the tooth (intro'd 4 years ago), so there may be a new WA model on the horizon.

[still-one]

Agree , but still no bass .....

Your joking right? Apparently you've never lived with MBL.

[kevinkwann]

Your joking right? Apparently you've never lived with MBL.

a.wayne doesn't get out much. The facility won't allow it.

[Elberoth]

I have heard the S5's and i thought it was said the M3's were better ....??

I will get to hear the M3's next week , we will see ....

You are joking right ?

The M3s are better than the S5s, the same way Porsche 911 Turbo S is better than BMW 5 series. For most of people the 911 will be better, but there will be some, namely families with kids, for whom BMW will be better - not because it is a better car per se, but 'cos it has more room - which is what they need.

The S5 mk 2 will be better in terms of bass slam and dynamic envelope in bigger rooms, but it is still the M3 which is more refined speaker.

[still-one]

You are joking right ?

The M3s are better than the S5s, the same way Porsche 911 Turbo S is better than BMW 5 series. For most of people the 911 will be better, but there will be some, namely families with kids, for whom BMW will be better - not because it is a better car per se, but 'cos it has more room - which is what they need.

The S5 mk 2 will be better in terms of bass slam and dynamic envelope in bigger rooms, but it is still the M3 which is more refined speaker.

Nice analogy Adam.

[Mike]

a.wayne doesn't get out much. The facility won't allow it.

Ok, have to admit, I laughed out loud on that one.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[a.wayne]

You are joking right ?

The M3s are better than the S5s, the same way Porsche 911 Turbo S is better than BMW 5 series. For most of people the 911 will be better, but there will be some, namely families with kids, for whom BMW will be better - not because it is a better car per se, but 'cos it has more room - which is what they need.

The S5 mk 2 will be better in terms of bass slam and dynamic envelope in bigger rooms, but it is still the M3 which is more refined speaker.

I guess you missed the ??? Marks .... S5, Q5, M3 , M5 mk1,2,3 , you will have to forgive me, i cant keep up which is which anymore..

[a.wayne]

Your joking right? Apparently you've never lived with MBL.

Yes and Yes but not recently ...

[a.wayne]

a.wayne doesn't get out much. The facility won't allow it.

Yep , definitely the last time I will ever use your name tag ....

[LVB]

Yes, and those people never got their Alexias installed by a properly trained WA dealer.

You should stop with this madness and look at some facts:

I assume JA got his Alexia installed by the proper authorities, right?
So just look at these 3 measurements, taken by JA. On-axis, off-axis, and in-room, they tell it all. We have a rare opportunity to see these two different speakers in the same environment, measured similarly.
Look at how much smoother the S5 off-axis response is, that results in a much better in-room response (different scale on the off-axis, but you can see the Alexia wreckage at 30°). No professional installation will change the Alexia poor off-axis performance, and that will make any room interaction impossible to predict or tame (Ignore the blue line on the S5 in-room, that is a different speaker).

S5 MK2:

Alexia: