trying to understand about reference amplifiers - differences between each other and tech info

[pelo911]

Hi

i have Vitus SM-101
and Pass 350.5

i bought them because i red reviews , not because i understand anything about amps

what are the top 5 amps today? (Solid state)
what is the Pro and Con of each?
every amp have own Sonic or Sound signature or some are 100% "unflavored"?

tech terms i'm not really understand:
microFarad storage
high current amps with over 1000VA power supply
negative feedback

thanks

[still-one]

If you ask 100 people you will get about 80 different answers at to which amps belong in a top 5 list of amps or for that matter any piece of gear. You will have those that lean towards solid state while others will prefer tubed gear. Is industrial design a factor in your decision? Is size a concern, if so something such as Boulder is a non starter. Do you want to purchase from your local dealer(s), if so that could limit the pool to select from. It would be nice if you could borrow a pair from a local dealer to auction in your home. You indicate your currently have both PASS and Vitus which many people would include in their top 5. You may just wish to move up to newer products within those brands.

[pelo911]

you have one of the best !
D'Agostino Momentum Mono

i live in Houston , there is no dealers here

i'm asking in general , to understand the differences between brands/models
and amplifier tech in general.

[Randy Myers]

Duplicate, sorry, I can't figure out how to delete....

[Randy Myers]

If you ask 100 people you will get about 80 different answers at to which amps belong in a top 5 list of amps or for that matter any piece of gear. You will have those that lean towards solid state while others will prefer tubed gear. Is industrial design a factor in your decision? Is size a concern, if so something such as Boulder is a non starter. Do you want to purchase from your local dealer(s), if so that could limit the pool to select from. It would be nice if you could borrow a pair from a local dealer to auction in your home. You indicate your currently have both PASS and Vitus which many people would include in their top 5. You may just wish to move up to newer products within those brands.

Unfortunately many of us do not have dealers anywhere close to listen to or "audition" at home... let alone "auction" at home.... sorry Jim, couldn't resist ...

The other problem is there are so many brands out there. I am sure there are some that people consider some of the finest that many other people have never even heard of.... for example there is a thread on The Shark now comparing several amplifiers and the one that is basically taking on all comers and winning every comparison these gentlemen are doing is one that most people have not heard of, SST. The Son Of Ampzilla II in particular, which I consider an amazing amplifier and I would put on my top five list ....

[still-one]

Unfortunately many of us do not have dealers anywhere close to listen to or "audition" at home... let alone "auction" at home.... sorry Jim, couldn't resist ...

The other problem is there are so many brands out there. I am sure there are some that people consider some of the finest that many other people have never even heard of.... for example there is a thread on The Shark now comparing several amplifiers and the one that is basically taking on all comers and winning every comparison these gentlemen are doing is one that most people have not heard of, SST. The Son Of Ampzilla II in particular, which I consider an amazing amplifier and I would put on my top five list ....

Randy, you are two to three hours from LA, that shouldn't;t be an issue for you.

[Mike]

Top 5? My top 5 would be:

Soulution
Vitus
CH
Ayre
Pass XS300
....and then a tie between Dartzeel, D'Ag, Boulder, and a few others.

Haven't spent enough time with Gryphon or FM acoustics to comment.


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[Randy Myers]

Hehe, it is more like 4 to get to LA dealers, if not more. And then at least and hour or two to get to another dealer down there. Plus of course, it is LA....and who the heck wants to go to LA ....

But seriously at least 4 hours to get any dealer... when we went up to visit our son in Sunnyvale went to a dealer... but all they really had was McIntosh.... and a decent speaker line... I think Sonus Faber or Focal?

There were also a couple Magnolia stores up there.... but that was next to useless...

The funny thing is lots of the good stuff is actually built here.... Wyred 4 Sound and SST are just around the corner (I have gone up to visit Tony and EJ several times and listened to EJ's KEFs in their test room... really nice).... Pass and First Watt are up in Auburn if I am not mistaken, which is near Sacramento... Vanderstein is over in the valley some where I believe and Magico is somewhere down south I think. Pretty sure Oppo is down there as well... and I am sure others as well... but nothing within 4-5 hours from here...

Also of course, not being a native Californian venturing down south intimidates the crap out of me ....

Ok, amplifiers I have recently heard (both in mine or club members homes)...

Audio Research Corporation (ARC)
Spread Spectrum Technologies (SST)
McIntosh
MBL
Goldmund
Bryston
Classe' Audio
Wyred 4 Sound (W4S)

[Mike]

For your speakers, Soulution is a common pairing.

If you want to go tubes, then VAC and Focal is great together.


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[Randy Myers]

Duplicate, can't figure out how to delete, sorry...

[still-one]

pelo911
You can see from our responses why only you can decide what will be right from you. Taking Mike's and Randy's lists I might pick 2 that would make it into a top 5. This hobby is too personal and besides you didn't indicate whether you had a budget.

[Randy Myers]

Totally agreed... but of course getting others opinions and responses are sometimes the only way of getting a feel for certain brands and honestly, many times hearing about a brand that you never knew existed. It is also one of the things that make this hobby so much fun!

[pelo911]

Top 5? My top 5 would be:

Soulution
Vitus
CH
Ayre
Pass XS300
....and then a tie between Dartzeel, D'Ag, Boulder, and a few others.

Haven't spent enough time with Gryphon or FM acoustics to comment.


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Boulder have killer amps !
600w class A?
i think they are the only brand offer so much power in Class A , right?

what about Audionet Max and Constellation Centaur?
YG and Magico using then

you chose Soulution and Vitus in your system
can you explain what you like with them compare to others?
Soulution and Vitus have similar sonic and performance?

thanks guys

[KeithR]

pelo911
You can see from our responses why only you can decide what will be right from you. Taking Mike's and Randy's lists I might pick 2 that would make it into a top 5. This hobby is too personal and besides you didn't indicate whether you had a budget.

poor pelo's been asking the same questions for 5 years now...and he has refused dealer/demo help before.

[anji12305]

As a disinterested bystander who cannot afford these fine amplifiers, I have in mind a definition of 'reference' for amplifiers:

Able to drive any speaker load, from 20 Hz to 20kHz at full rated power.

Total harmonic distortion below at or below the current state of the art.

Signal to noise below the source material.

Dynamic reserve sufficient to handle peak demands without compression (clipping) at maximum rated output.

Getting one that sounds best, with a given loudspeaker in your room is where the fun starts.

Personally, I prefer simpler designs with fewer parts.

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[pelo911]

poor pelo's been asking the same questions for 5 years now...and he has refused dealer/demo help before.

you are right , dealer from Dallas
agree to come to my house
it's 5 hours drive

i didn't had time back then
i think it was on 2014
my mistake
i think this dealer no longer in business (if i remember right)

[mep]

Top 5? My top 5 would be:

Soulution
Vitus
CH
Ayre
Pass XS300
....and then a tie between Dartzeel, D'Ag, Boulder, and a few others.

Haven't spent enough time with Gryphon or FM acoustics to comment.


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No tubes in there?

[Mike]

No tubes in there?

He wanted SS only. See above.


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[mep]

He wanted SS only. See above.


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You are right. I missed that.

[the professor]

The D'Ag dealer in Dallas is still there. At least it was 3 months ago when I went into the store.

you are right , dealer from Dallas
agree to come to my house
it's 5 hours drive

i didn't had time back then
i think it was on 2014
my mistake
i think this dealer no longer in business (if i remember right)

[pelo911]

The D'Ag dealer in Dallas is still there. At least it was 3 months ago when I went into the store.

Design Audio Video
he carried Focal , Magico , Soulution , and more

i will try to contact him again.

what i'm thinking to do now:
trying to find an Amp and Pre that can be good match to my Focal Maestro
but also with Magico

few Focal owners told me the Maestro can be fantastic with the right setup and can be very bad without.
one owner using Audionet Max and the other using Pass XS150
if i remember right , one of them using Tube Pre and was very happy with the midrange.

so in case i will not be happy with my speakers even with proper setup
i will sell it and buy Magico

make sense?

[a.wayne]

As a disinterested bystander who cannot afford these fine amplifiers, I have in mind a definition of 'reference' for amplifiers:

Able to drive any speaker load, from 20 Hz to 20kHz at full rated power.

Total harmonic distortion below at or below the current state of the art.

Signal to noise below the source material.

Dynamic reserve sufficient to handle peak demands without compression (clipping) at maximum rated output.

Getting one that sounds best, with a given loudspeaker in your room is where the fun starts.

Personally, I prefer simpler designs with fewer parts.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

Simpler with fewer parts wont meet your drive any load criteria ..

[a.wayne]

Design Audio Video
he carried Focal , Magico , Soulution , and more

i will try to contact him again.

what i'm thinking to do now:
trying to find an Amp and Pre that can be good match to my Focal Maestro
but also with Magico

few Focal owners told me the Maestro can be fantastic with the right setup and can be very bad without.
one owner using Audionet Max and the other using Pass XS150
if i remember right , one of them using Tube Pre and was very happy with the midrange.

so in case i will not be happy with my speakers even with proper setup
i will sell it and buy Magico

make sense?

A lot ..

What do you find lacking in your current setup ....

[KeithR]

I would highly recommend going to Axpona or LAAS to figure out what kind of sound you actually like. Pelo, you spin your wheels too much on forums and have little listening experience so our opinions are worthless. All the "help" you require is to do some legwork on your own and you will lose much less than buying/selling different amps and speakers.

The fact you are unhappy with your speaker setup after multiple years of struggles means you need to change your course of action. Sorry to be blunt.

[the professor]

Not sure about Design Audio Video. I thought you were talking about the D'Agostino dealer.

Design Audio Video
he carried Focal , Magico , Soulution , and more

i will try to contact him again.

what i'm thinking to do now:
trying to find an Amp and Pre that can be good match to my Focal Maestro
but also with Magico

few Focal owners told me the Maestro can be fantastic with the right setup and can be very bad without.
one owner using Audionet Max and the other using Pass XS150
if i remember right , one of them using Tube Pre and was very happy with the midrange.

so in case i will not be happy with my speakers even with proper setup
i will sell it and buy Magico

make sense?

[pelo911]

A lot ..

What do you find lacking in your current setup ....

dynamic
bass
mid-range

it's hard to explain
i listen to Magico S3 at CES show
and love it !
i liked that the sound was all over the room , great soundstage

[bonzo]

Try this amp if you can find one http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...l=1#post194124

[pelo911]

Try this amp if you can find one http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...l=1#post194124

wow !
400W class A

the speakers i thinking of is Magico S5 Mk2

[a.wayne]

Doubtful 400 watt class-A , yes very .....


See AS Mike if you want to hear the S5, he may still have one ..



regards

[Mechnutt]

Just curious, what is it that you don't like about the Pass 350.5? What preamp are you pairing it with?

I think that a list of reference amps can be very large due to personal tastes and also taking into account the other gear in your system and your listening environment.

[pelo911]

i'm using Pass XP-10
with Vitus amps
and same DAC you using

Pass 350.5
i didn't use it for more then 3 years
it's in the garage

[Mikado463]

Hi

i have Vitus SM-101
and Pass 350.5

i bought them because i red reviews , not because i understand anything about amps

what are the top 5 amps today? (Solid state)

there NO top 5 amps ..........

[a.wayne]

What you figure , Top 6 .. Lol

[Mechnutt]

i'm using Pass XP-10
with Vitus amps
and same DAC you using

Pass 350.5
i didn't use it for more then 3 years
it's in the garage

If you ever have a garage sale, let me know

Have you considered a better preamp?

I love my X250 paired with BAT preamp. I use to have a Pass X1 pre, but the BAT is so much better on so many levels. I plan on upgrading to an X250.5 amp.

[Mikado463]

What you figure , Top 6 .. Lol

LOL, no, simply stating for any two people to agree on the top 5 amps is stupid.

[pelo911]

If you ever have a garage sale, let me know

Have you considered a better preamp?

I love my X250 paired with BAT preamp. I use to have a Pass X1 pre, but the BAT is so much better on so many levels. I plan on upgrading to an X250.5 amp.

for sale:
X350.5
Lumin A1
Luxman DA-06

[pelo911]

curious about tech info on Vitus

if i compare it to Solution 511 (this is the amp i'd love to own)
power supply (4 x 600VA )
more than 500'000 µFarad
Peak current rating of more than 60A
Impulse power rating> 3'000 Watt (stereo/dual), > 6'000 Watt (mono)
Stereo-mode: 140W @ 8Ω, 280W @ 4Ω, 560W @ 2Ω per channel

what are the spec for Vitus?
i'm just thinking that maybe this is the issue with my speakers
Vitus 50w might be the issue? lack of power / grip
i noticed that Magico also stop using Vitus and they using Soulution and Constellation

stereophile review recommend amp with a lot of power ,
they switched from 150W to 600w amp
http://www.stereophile.com/content/focal-maestro-utopia-iii-loudspeaker-page-3#eyp1WtcyAjybyx3m.97

i bought the Maestro because i wanted "big" sound
great bass and dynamic
i'm not getting it

[Mechnutt]

for sale:
X350.5
Lumin A1
Luxman DA-06

That 350.5 is tempting. It is way more power and amp than I need. I will pick up a used 250.5 sometime in the next few months and sell my X250. I am also considering selling my Luxman DA-06 after recently hearing my friends T and A dac.

I find it very interesting that you do not like the bass, mid range and dynamic's of the Pass amp. These are all strengths of the amp. But it is all about personal taste, the room and associated gear.

[Mikado463]

I find it very interesting that you do not like the bass, mid range and dynamic's of the Pass amp. These are all strengths of the amp. But it is all about personal taste, the room and associated gear.

totally agreed, I suspect room interaction is at play here. Poor pelo seems to be all over the map .......

[pelo911]

That 350.5 is tempting. It is way more power and amp than I need. I will pick up a used 250.5 sometime in the next few months and sell my X250. I am also considering selling my Luxman DA-06 after recently hearing my friends T and A dac.

I find it very interesting that you do not like the bass, mid range and dynamic's of the Pass amp. These are all strengths of the amp. But it is all about personal taste, the room and associated gear.

reserve power it's not a bad thing

i'm not complaining about Pass
it's my speakers issue i guess.

[alto]

Hi

i have Vitus SM-101
and Pass 350.5

i bought them because i red reviews , not because i understand anything about amps

what are the top 5 amps today? (Solid state)
what is the Pro and Con of each?
every amp have own Sonic or Sound signature or some are 100% "unflavored"?

tech terms i'm not really understand:
microFarad storage
high current amps with over 1000VA power supply
negative feedback

thanks

What you have must be pretty good. I you want to go one better then it is probably Soulution you need to consider.

Other brands at a more reasonable price to consider would be:

Analogue Domain

Grandinote

Jeff Rowland

SST

Mola Mola

Audionet

Boenicke

[pelo911]

What you have must be pretty good. I you want to go one better then it is probably Soulution you need to consider.

Other brands at a more reasonable price to consider would be:

Analogue Domain


Grandinote

Jeff Rowland

SST

Mola Mola

Audionet

Boenicke

right,

Audionet Max, very good reviews and similar sonic as Soulution

CH also consider as one of the best.

people say Vitus sound best with Vitus
i will look for Vitus Pre
sell the gear i'm not using.

then i'm thinking about Magico S5 mk2
or Rockport Avior for great bass
i need to listen first.

[bonzo]

right,

Audionet Max, very good reviews and similar sonic as Soulution

CH also consider as one of the best.

people say Vitus sound best with Vitus
i will look for Vitus Pre
sell the gear i'm not using.

then i'm thinking about Magico S5 mk2
or Rockport Avior for great bass
i need to listen first.

If you are not getting bass with focal you won't get with these speakers. There might be a room bass issue

[Mechnutt]

I doubt that the preamp is the issue with bass although getting the matching preamp for your amp may give you more synergy. As above, could be a room issue. Have you tried re-positioning your speakers?

[pelo911]

i found Vitus RD-100 (as Mr Hans Vitus advice me)
arrived today

plug it to the Vitus amps
unplugged the Luxman DA-06
plug the RD-100 to the computer

played Christine and the Queens - 01. Paradis perdus

i can't believe i didn't did it long time ago !
i'm so stupid
people say Vitus must plug with Vitus and couldn't believe it's a big different
or something wrong with Pass XP-10 , i really don't understand that.

so much bass now !!!
sound like i have two sub-woofers
even in low volume , more details

with SL-101 / SL-102 it will be even better
just not sure what DAC to use.

those Vitus SM-101 have so much power / grip !!
even in Class A

Wow!