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Thread: HiFi Critic DAC shootout
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January 26, 2017, 04:52 PM #1
HiFi Critic DAC shootout
http://www.hificritic.com/vol-10-no-4-excerpts.html
Has anyone read the new big DAC shootout issue?
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkMy Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
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January 26, 2017, 11:09 PM #2
Re: HiFi Critic DAC shootout
$128 for a U.S. subscription!!! How about summarizing the results for us!
Squeezebox Touch/Bel Canto DAC 3.5VB + Oppo 205 > Conrad Johnson CT5 preamp and Premier 350 amp > Martin Logan Expression 13A's and two ML BF210 subs. Audience Au24e I/C's & speaker cable. Member of the Suncoast Audiophile Society.
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January 26, 2017, 11:10 PM #3
Re: HiFi Critic DAC shootout
My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
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January 27, 2017, 01:38 AM #4
Re: HiFi Critic DAC shootout
Dan
STUDIO - McIntosh C1000C/P, MC2301 (2), MR88, Aurender N10, Esoteric K-01X, Shunyata Sigma spdif digital coax, Sonos Connect, Stillpoints Ultra SS & Ultra Mini, PurePower 2000, Furutech Flux 50, Michell Gyro SE, Michell HR Power Supply, SME 309, Ortofon Cadenza Black, Sonus faber Amati Anniversario
LIVING ROOM - McIntosh C2300, MC75 (2), MR85, Magnum Dynalab 205 Signal Sleuth, Sonos Connect, Simaudio MOON Neo 260D-T, Schiit Audio Yggdrasil, Aurender N100H, Shunyata Sigma USB cable, Sony DAT 60ES, Nakamichi BX-300, Micro Seiki DD40 w/m505A tonearm, Ortofon Cadenza Blue, PS Audio P10, Furutech Flux 50, Stillpoints Ultra Mini, PMC EB1i, JL Audio f113
VINTAGE - McIntosh 4300V, McIntosh MA230, Tandberg 3011A tuner, Olive 04HD, JBL 4312A
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January 27, 2017, 02:11 AM #5
Re: HiFi Critic DAC shootout
Great read. And since HiFi Critic doesn't accept advertisements, the reviewer didn't pull any punches.
If I remember correctly, the review included some top contenders including the Trinity, CH C1, DCS Vivaldi and Berkeley Alpha Ref2.
While you don't have to agree with the reviewer's specific preferences, he laid out very precise comparisons based on a number of specific criteria which you may find useful in clarifying your own preferences and comparisons.
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkRockport Lyra speakers; TotalDac Amp-1 mono blocks; four box CH Precision L1/X1 pre/power supply monos; CH precision P1/X1 phono/power supply; TotalDac d1-driver monos; Pacific Microsonics Model 2 DAC; TotalDac d1-12 MkII DAC with two reclockers; Kodo The Beat Turnatable with LT Schroder magnesium tonearm and Lyra Atlas cart; Taiko Extreme server; Kalista Dreamplayer CD Transport; Taiko Audio Daiza Platforms; Nordost Odin2 Power Cords and Analog ICs; 512 Engineering/Tim Marutani Balanced Transformers (30 amp for sources; 50 amp for amps); Rives designed dedicated room.
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January 27, 2017, 06:20 AM #6
Re: HiFi Critic DAC shootout
I don't get you ppl.
When the mag has ads and is almost free (Stereophile) ppl say the reviews are rubbish, as they are all paid.
When the mag has zero ads (which means, it is the readers who have to pay for it), ppl complain it is ... too expensive.
I guess they would like to have a mag that is free and has no ads at all.Adam
Speakers: Magico M3
Amp: Dagostino Momentum Stereo
Digital: Lampi Horizon + Lampi DSD Komputer
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January 27, 2017, 08:02 AM #7
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January 27, 2017, 08:47 AM #8
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January 27, 2017, 12:50 PM #9
Re: HiFi Critic DAC shootout
NORMAN
Custom PC with Memory Player Software Suite/ Modded Denon CD transport>Lampi GG1 (and sometimes PACIFIC) DHT tube Dac> Rowen 850W Isolating Transformer/ Rowen SS Preamp and PA1 monoblocs/Lampi Silk power cond. with Phase flipper> Heil AMT KITHARA & Syrinx in parallel hookup. Swiss cables (Reference line) for PC/interconnects and speaker cables. Goldmund Sweetcord PC. FTA Callisto unpowered USB cable. Basic analog: vintage Lenco L78 TT with Rowen mat, Denon MM cart, iFi iPhono2 with 15v Hynes SR3 LPSU. Synology 12 TB NAS. 2nd system:KenWin Bluetooth speaker 3rd system TBI Millemnium amp with Aulos speakers and SB Duo hookup.
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January 27, 2017, 01:28 PM #10
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Re: HiFi Critic DAC shootout
What server did they use, and what was the rest of the system?
Howard
Pass Labs XS 300's, XS Pre | Berkeley Audio Design Alpha DAC Reference Series 3, Alpha USB Series 2 | Aurender W20SE, ACS10 | Magico S7's with MPOD's, QSub 15 x 2 | Shunyata Denali 2000T x 2 with Sigma HC | Shunyata Everest 8000 w/ Omega XC | MIT Heritage and Oracle Interconnects and speaker cables | Critical Mass Maxxum rack
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January 27, 2017, 06:14 PM #11
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Re: HiFi Critic DAC shootout
Brinkmann Bardo w/ EMT HSD-006 cart, MSB Reference DAC --> Linear Tube Audio MicroZOTL --> Ampzilla 2000, 2nd Edition --> Fyne Audio F1-12
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January 27, 2017, 08:31 PM #12
Re: HiFi Critic DAC shootout
If they offered a digital (downloadable) subscription for under $75/yr, I would gladly pay for it!
Squeezebox Touch/Bel Canto DAC 3.5VB + Oppo 205 > Conrad Johnson CT5 preamp and Premier 350 amp > Martin Logan Expression 13A's and two ML BF210 subs. Audience Au24e I/C's & speaker cable. Member of the Suncoast Audiophile Society.
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January 27, 2017, 09:04 PM #13
Re: HiFi Critic DAC shootout
Yep ... No more than1% of cabling cost .... Lol
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January 29, 2017, 02:42 AM #14
Re: HiFi Critic DAC shootout
It appears that the author used an Audio Note (UK) CDT Five Transport, Dartzeel preamp and power amp, and Magico Q5 speakers.
The review covered the following DACs: Berkeley Audio Alpha 2, Audio Note (UK) DAC 5 Signature, Trinity DAC, dCS Vivaldi DAC v2.0, Metronome C8 Plus, CH Precision C1, and Berkeley Audio Alpha Reference Series 2.
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkRockport Lyra speakers; TotalDac Amp-1 mono blocks; four box CH Precision L1/X1 pre/power supply monos; CH precision P1/X1 phono/power supply; TotalDac d1-driver monos; Pacific Microsonics Model 2 DAC; TotalDac d1-12 MkII DAC with two reclockers; Kodo The Beat Turnatable with LT Schroder magnesium tonearm and Lyra Atlas cart; Taiko Extreme server; Kalista Dreamplayer CD Transport; Taiko Audio Daiza Platforms; Nordost Odin2 Power Cords and Analog ICs; 512 Engineering/Tim Marutani Balanced Transformers (30 amp for sources; 50 amp for amps); Rives designed dedicated room.
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January 29, 2017, 04:55 AM #15
Re: HiFi Critic DAC shootout
wow..cant wait to read that.
NORMAN
Custom PC with Memory Player Software Suite/ Modded Denon CD transport>Lampi GG1 (and sometimes PACIFIC) DHT tube Dac> Rowen 850W Isolating Transformer/ Rowen SS Preamp and PA1 monoblocs/Lampi Silk power cond. with Phase flipper> Heil AMT KITHARA & Syrinx in parallel hookup. Swiss cables (Reference line) for PC/interconnects and speaker cables. Goldmund Sweetcord PC. FTA Callisto unpowered USB cable. Basic analog: vintage Lenco L78 TT with Rowen mat, Denon MM cart, iFi iPhono2 with 15v Hynes SR3 LPSU. Synology 12 TB NAS. 2nd system:KenWin Bluetooth speaker 3rd system TBI Millemnium amp with Aulos speakers and SB Duo hookup.
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January 29, 2017, 05:36 AM #16
Re: HiFi Critic DAC shootout
The reviewer choose the current generation of the DAC that he already owns as his winner - Berkeley Ref. 2. The presentation he's used to and have already chosen for his personal system basically. Along the way throughout the review, you learn that the speakers used were Magico Q5's partnered with darTZeel electronics (pre- and power).
On this level - it's all about synergy and personal opinion. These are all top contenders with their own individual virtuos.
/ MarcusPERFECT SENSE
www.perfect-sense.se
Showroom in Stockholm, Sweden | info@perfect-sense.se | 08 518 368 00 | Follow us on Facebook
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January 29, 2017, 06:08 AM #17
Re: HiFi Critic DAC shootout
The subscription rate is reasonable considering ...
The Audio Critic was always expensive , back in the late 70's when i saw my first copy , it was nothing more than what one would see from a typical high school type news letter and cost was significantly higher than other mags of the time . I was later told , it was because there were no ads and PA had to purchase the equipment under review as no manufacture would let him have their product.
His reviews back then and forever were Brutal and he pulled no punches.....
Peter , much later thru TAC , introduced the power cube test and to my knowledge he was the only US mag to do so , this test would subject amplifiers to real world speaker type loads , toobs would fail miserably and only the best SS built amps could pass. Because of toobs poor performance on this test, Peter hated them and thought them nothing more than effects Boxes creating their own sound ..
SP and others never adopted the test for obvious reasons why even the normal daily dose of testing bass response with a 25hz square wave were eventually dropped ( SP only uses 1K/10K today) to protect the innocent ....
If you have to know , subscribe .....
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January 29, 2017, 06:22 AM #18
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January 29, 2017, 06:49 AM #19
HiFi Critic DAC shootout
Hi Marcus,
Yes completely agree with your point that "On this level - it's all about synergy and personal opinion. These are all top contenders with their own individual virtuos [sic]".
And yes if your system is "tuned" to your equipment, it is "biased" toward equipment that is similar to what you already have.
But every review and reviewer typically has the same bias toward their current "reference".
Moreover, there are a number of unique considerations associated with this review that made it a refreshing read for me.
First, the reviewer doesn't pull any punches in part because HIFI Critic doesn't accept advertising. He was clear about how each contender scored based on his preferences.
Second, while yes, every reviewer has his own personal biases and predilections, the reviewer considered a number of top DAC contenders at the same time from the perspective of an audiophile buyer looking to buy a top DAC for his system.
Third, although you can disagree with his preferences, he laid out a very thoughtful, albeit personal, set of criteria based on musical engagement/enjoyment.
This is useful because if you own or are interested in any of these DACs, you can decide if his criteria and preferences agree with your own.
But even more importantly, you can use his criteria to inform your own set of preferences. And as it's been said before, if we're not careful, we might just learn something.
And in this case, as evidenced by the "second opinion" section of the review, it appears the reviewer has painstakingly spent a great deal of time and thoughtful effort optimizing his system by eliminating noise in all its forms - a necessary through albeit not so common instance. And HIFi Critic is a respected publication. So his opinions have some credibility.
Overall, the review gives you something to think about, especially if you own or are looking at any of the contender DACs. It's just like having a knowledgeable audiophile friend evaluate your system with a "Cart Blanche" permission to tell it like it is, rather than give you a polite response: You don't have to give credence to the opinion, but it's food for thought.
And just to emphasize and clarify your point for others, his reference going into the review was the older Berkeley Alpha 2. In the end his preferred choice was the newest version of his previous reference: the Berkeley Alpha Reference 2.
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkRockport Lyra speakers; TotalDac Amp-1 mono blocks; four box CH Precision L1/X1 pre/power supply monos; CH precision P1/X1 phono/power supply; TotalDac d1-driver monos; Pacific Microsonics Model 2 DAC; TotalDac d1-12 MkII DAC with two reclockers; Kodo The Beat Turnatable with LT Schroder magnesium tonearm and Lyra Atlas cart; Taiko Extreme server; Kalista Dreamplayer CD Transport; Taiko Audio Daiza Platforms; Nordost Odin2 Power Cords and Analog ICs; 512 Engineering/Tim Marutani Balanced Transformers (30 amp for sources; 50 amp for amps); Rives designed dedicated room.
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January 29, 2017, 07:18 AM #20
Re: HiFi Critic DAC shootout
Indeed. His collegue Martin Colloms does give his perspective as well though. What I believe is fundamental is to explain the context in which the component resides - incl. electronics, cabling, power conditioning, support etc. as well as of course the setting - room dimension/volume and overall acoustics.
In this case, it seems that Magico rules in the systems of the reviewers which reflects one ideal out of many out there. As a reader and subscriber, I believe you should be allowed to expect one different brand and model of speakers as part of such a broad and rather ambitious evaluation - perhaps on the opposite side of the spectrum - let's say a pair of Kaiser Classic, Verity's, DeVore...
/ MarcusPERFECT SENSE
www.perfect-sense.se
Showroom in Stockholm, Sweden | info@perfect-sense.se | 08 518 368 00 | Follow us on Facebook
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January 29, 2017, 09:21 AM #21
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Re: HiFi Critic DAC shootout
Which DAC did the "second opinion" favor?
You could say that the Audio Note DAC had an advantage since it was paired with it's matching transport.
You could say the most expensive DAC had an advantage too.
You *could* say a lot of things about the review, but if the reviewer is respected and has built a highly resolving reference system than what else could you ask for really - it's his review and his opinion at the end of the day - no more no less.
What were the relative prices of the DACs reviewed, and in the case of "stacked" DACs what components (e.g. clocks) were used?Howard
Pass Labs XS 300's, XS Pre | Berkeley Audio Design Alpha DAC Reference Series 3, Alpha USB Series 2 | Aurender W20SE, ACS10 | Magico S7's with MPOD's, QSub 15 x 2 | Shunyata Denali 2000T x 2 with Sigma HC | Shunyata Everest 8000 w/ Omega XC | MIT Heritage and Oracle Interconnects and speaker cables | Critical Mass Maxxum rack
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January 29, 2017, 10:01 AM #22
Re: HiFi Critic DAC shootout
He liked the BADA Ref 2 best. His system was voiced around BADA Series 2 DAC so the similar sounding Ref 2 could have had an advantage.
I wish Martin Colloms offered something more than his perspective on the BADA Ref 2, which BTW didn't score as high as some other top tier DACs he had revieved. Something to consider.
The whole review looks to me more like a 'reader's letter' that ended up beeing published. I don't recall any reviews written by this guy.Adam
Speakers: Magico M3
Amp: Dagostino Momentum Stereo
Digital: Lampi Horizon + Lampi DSD Komputer
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January 29, 2017, 10:02 AM #23
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January 29, 2017, 10:15 AM #24
Re: HiFi Critic DAC shootout
Lol ,
....
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January 30, 2017, 01:00 AM #25
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Re: HiFi Critic DAC shootout
Does anyone, other than guys who already like BADA DACs and Magico speakers, trust this guy's conclusion?
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January 31, 2017, 12:57 PM #26++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Aurender N10 > Audience Au24 SE AES/EBU digital cable > Chord DAVE DAC > Audience Au24 SE XLR interconnects > Luxman L-505uX integrated amplifier > Audience Au24 SE speaker cables > DeVore Fidelity Gibbon 88 speakers
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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January 31, 2017, 01:17 PM #27
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January 31, 2017, 01:46 PM #28
Re: HiFi Critic DAC shootout
I'm looking forward to hearing the Berkeley Audio Alpha Reference Series 2 fully implemented with MQA at some point. I don't plan on doing anything right now because the Musical Paradise is just wonderful.
Fleetwood Deville by Oswald Mills Audio, Vienna Acoustics Haydn Jubilee, Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.
Job INTegrated. Luxman L-595aSE
NAD C 658 streamer.
First Watt SIT-3, Job 250 Monos, NuForce STA200, AkitikA GT-102 amp, ASL Wave monos, Dennis Had 45 monos. Absolute Audio Labs PCF 25 amp (improved First Watt F7 super clone)
Topping D90, RME Audio ADI-2 DAC FS, ModWright Ultimate Sony XA-5400ES.
Burmester 948, McIntosh MCLK12, Kimber Kable, Siltech, Cardas, Avanti Audio cables.
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January 31, 2017, 08:31 PM #29
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Re: HiFi Critic DAC shootout
I'm curious how much it cost to upgrade a Berkeley Alpha Reference DAC to a series 2?
T+A MP3100HV, T+A PA3100HV. Custom made Furutech cables with ETP-609 distributor with NCF outlets, Harbeth 40.2 Anniversaries.
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January 31, 2017, 08:59 PM #30
Re: HiFi Critic DAC shootout
Jim.......According to The Absolute Sound review found here: http://www.theabsolutesound.com/arti...-dac-series-2/ , the original price of the Berkeley Alpha Reference DAC was $16,000; the Series 2 is $19,500. Owners of the original can upgrade for the $3,500 difference.
Dan
STUDIO - McIntosh C1000C/P, MC2301 (2), MR88, Aurender N10, Esoteric K-01X, Shunyata Sigma spdif digital coax, Sonos Connect, Stillpoints Ultra SS & Ultra Mini, PurePower 2000, Furutech Flux 50, Michell Gyro SE, Michell HR Power Supply, SME 309, Ortofon Cadenza Black, Sonus faber Amati Anniversario
LIVING ROOM - McIntosh C2300, MC75 (2), MR85, Magnum Dynalab 205 Signal Sleuth, Sonos Connect, Simaudio MOON Neo 260D-T, Schiit Audio Yggdrasil, Aurender N100H, Shunyata Sigma USB cable, Sony DAT 60ES, Nakamichi BX-300, Micro Seiki DD40 w/m505A tonearm, Ortofon Cadenza Blue, PS Audio P10, Furutech Flux 50, Stillpoints Ultra Mini, PMC EB1i, JL Audio f113
VINTAGE - McIntosh 4300V, McIntosh MA230, Tandberg 3011A tuner, Olive 04HD, JBL 4312A
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January 31, 2017, 10:00 PM #31
Re: HiFi Critic DAC shootout
True, kinda.
Several months ago, when I spoke with one of the two Michaels who started Berkeley, he said that $3.5K price for the upgrade is only for original owners.
But if you bought your Berkeley Ref used, in the secondary market, the price for the upgrade is $5,000.
When I asked him why the kinda large cost discrepancy, he responded with something about wanting to discourage the used market.
Really.++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Aurender N10 > Audience Au24 SE AES/EBU digital cable > Chord DAVE DAC > Audience Au24 SE XLR interconnects > Luxman L-505uX integrated amplifier > Audience Au24 SE speaker cables > DeVore Fidelity Gibbon 88 speakers
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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January 31, 2017, 10:15 PM #32
Re: HiFi Critic DAC shootout
Holy cow!
Talk about shooting yourself in the foot. I don't like that kind of "marketing" at all. That's insane to me. Ayre never does anything like that and all products that are upgraded along the way are offered to whoever sends one in. Maybe another reason to stay away, in my opinion.
Fleetwood Deville by Oswald Mills Audio, Vienna Acoustics Haydn Jubilee, Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.
Job INTegrated. Luxman L-595aSE
NAD C 658 streamer.
First Watt SIT-3, Job 250 Monos, NuForce STA200, AkitikA GT-102 amp, ASL Wave monos, Dennis Had 45 monos. Absolute Audio Labs PCF 25 amp (improved First Watt F7 super clone)
Topping D90, RME Audio ADI-2 DAC FS, ModWright Ultimate Sony XA-5400ES.
Burmester 948, McIntosh MCLK12, Kimber Kable, Siltech, Cardas, Avanti Audio cables.
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January 31, 2017, 11:02 PM #33
Re: HiFi Critic DAC shootout
That is really short sighted thinking. The used market is a big factor driving new purchases. Without it the ability to upgrade and purchase expensive new products would be greatly reduced. In essence this manufacturer is only interested in servicing original owners. In my opinion not a smart strategy in a product category with often short product cycles or frequent upgrade options.
Buddy
Boulder 1160 Amp, 1110 Pre-Amp
Audio Research Ref. 3 Phono-Pre
Vivid Audio Giya G2S2 Speakers
MSB Reference DAC
Innuos Statement w/Next. Gen. PS
B & W DB1D Subwoofer X2
Audioquest Niagara 5000 Power Conditioner
Kronos Pro Turntable w/Kronoscope RS tonearm + SCPS-1 PS + MSL Platinum Cart.
VPI HW-40 Turntable w/ Lyra Etna cartridge
Jay's Audio CDT3-MK3 CD Transport
Schiit Mjolnir 2 HPA + Audeze LCD X headphones
Adona Equipment Rack and Amp Stands
Furutech Outlets and Plates + NCF Booster
Shunyata Cables
Synergistic Research Galileo SX Ground Block, FEQ 4, Ethernet Switch UEF, Black Box + Room Acoustic treatments
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February 1, 2017, 12:35 AM #34
Re: HiFi Critic DAC shootout
That doesn't strike me as a good business plan. It's a turn off in my mind. Second or third owners aren't asking for free warranty support. Burdening those who wish to upgrade the Berkeley Alpha Reference DAC to the Reference 2 DAC with an additional $1500 penalty because they aren't the original owner is a slap in the face. The used market supports their business to a degree even if they wish to ignore it. Honestly, how many $16,000 Alpha REF DAC's did they sell? Rather short sighted if you ask me.
Dan
STUDIO - McIntosh C1000C/P, MC2301 (2), MR88, Aurender N10, Esoteric K-01X, Shunyata Sigma spdif digital coax, Sonos Connect, Stillpoints Ultra SS & Ultra Mini, PurePower 2000, Furutech Flux 50, Michell Gyro SE, Michell HR Power Supply, SME 309, Ortofon Cadenza Black, Sonus faber Amati Anniversario
LIVING ROOM - McIntosh C2300, MC75 (2), MR85, Magnum Dynalab 205 Signal Sleuth, Sonos Connect, Simaudio MOON Neo 260D-T, Schiit Audio Yggdrasil, Aurender N100H, Shunyata Sigma USB cable, Sony DAT 60ES, Nakamichi BX-300, Micro Seiki DD40 w/m505A tonearm, Ortofon Cadenza Blue, PS Audio P10, Furutech Flux 50, Stillpoints Ultra Mini, PMC EB1i, JL Audio f113
VINTAGE - McIntosh 4300V, McIntosh MA230, Tandberg 3011A tuner, Olive 04HD, JBL 4312A
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February 5, 2017, 02:46 PM #35
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- 3
Re: HiFi Critic DAC shootout
I have to share my story of a high end DAC shootout. As Mike knows, I got to know him through Audioshark Forum. Elsewhere in this forum you can learn that Mike (Suncoast Audio) has finally put down brick and mortar. My wife and I happened to be traveling in Mid-Feb and made arrangements on a Friday to have a blindfolded shootout of 5 top DACs. first, I can't say enough about the Suncoast facility - it has to be one of the top spots in U.S. - absolutely fantastic. Mike replicated a version of my equipment (Ayre pre/amp, Aurender and Vandersteen Quatros - vs my Ayre ref Kx-R/VX-R and Carbon 5As. My wife and I were blindfolded through all but the final two selection. Going in, my wife was fully locked like Harry Potter "..Not Slytherin, not Slytherin..." but rather "....not Lampizator, not Lampizator..." due to the WAF factor.
Key results:
- Used my Dana USB cable on all DACs
- Tunes varied from Annie Lennox - Into the West, Brad Mehldau - Waltz for J.B., Stevie Ray Vaughn - Tin Pan Alley, Symphony #2 in E Minor Op. 27 - Budapest Festival Orchestra, Moondance - Van Morrison
- So here is how they sorted - first the eliminations:
- Ayre Qx-5 - was immediately eliminated as too bright for both of us. Sound was good and soundstage was clear but the hair raised on the back of our necks during the Annie Lennox crescendo ( note after the shootout, Mike mentioned he likes the QX5 with another USB
- Berkeley Ref 2 - this was my initial favorite but my wife felt it was mushy in the soundstage background. We did listen again after the shootout and enjoyed it more and the sound was excellent just not the top one
- Dave Chord - this one had amazing depth to the sound stage, excellent separation and clarity BUT it was also too bright. Mike tried another USB cable but alas, was still a bit too shrill for our tastes
- You guessed it - when we took off the masks - left standing were the B7 and Atlantic Lampizators - The music was warmer and more organic. For us, it sounded more analog and natural.
...And the winner is: after 6 1/2 hours with Mike and swapping tubes in the B7 and the Atlantic rectifier, the B7 clearly was the winner. The clincher was the Symphony #2 which was mesmerizing - truly one of the most emotional connections ever with the music. My wife is thrilled with the sound (and will live with the aesthetics) and swears there must be some type of gypsy magic sprinkled onto the B7.
We essentially ordered the B7 with the set up we loved ( tubes and wires) and included a Denali 6000T per Mike's recommendation.
As a couple who has shopped most Hi-Fi shops -on the East Coast we enjoyed our experience with Mike in his new shop. Mike is passionate and spends less time selling and more trying to find the right sound for us. He guided us in the process and adjusted as we reflected on each DAC. It's nice to have a guide on the trail. Truth of the matter, I think he enjoyed the shootout too.
What fun! Can't wait for the equipment to ship to our house.
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February 5, 2017, 06:03 PM #36
Re: HiFi Critic DAC shootout
Welcome to the forum, thank you for joining.
Fleetwood Deville by Oswald Mills Audio, Vienna Acoustics Haydn Jubilee, Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.
Job INTegrated. Luxman L-595aSE
NAD C 658 streamer.
First Watt SIT-3, Job 250 Monos, NuForce STA200, AkitikA GT-102 amp, ASL Wave monos, Dennis Had 45 monos. Absolute Audio Labs PCF 25 amp (improved First Watt F7 super clone)
Topping D90, RME Audio ADI-2 DAC FS, ModWright Ultimate Sony XA-5400ES.
Burmester 948, McIntosh MCLK12, Kimber Kable, Siltech, Cardas, Avanti Audio cables.
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February 5, 2017, 06:25 PM #37
Re: HiFi Critic DAC shootout
My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
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February 5, 2017, 10:25 PM #38
Re: HiFi Critic DAC shootout
Mike's the man!
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkSpeakers - Magico S5mk2 Integrated - Vitus SIA-025 Analog - Vpi Prime Signature/Ortofon Cadenza Bronze Digital - Lumin A1
Power - Shunyata Denali 6000S/Alpha HC/Alpha Digital Cables - Kimber KS-6063/Nordost Frey IC
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February 5, 2017, 10:32 PM #39
Re: HiFi Critic DAC shootout
Fleetwood Deville by Oswald Mills Audio, Vienna Acoustics Haydn Jubilee, Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.
Job INTegrated. Luxman L-595aSE
NAD C 658 streamer.
First Watt SIT-3, Job 250 Monos, NuForce STA200, AkitikA GT-102 amp, ASL Wave monos, Dennis Had 45 monos. Absolute Audio Labs PCF 25 amp (improved First Watt F7 super clone)
Topping D90, RME Audio ADI-2 DAC FS, ModWright Ultimate Sony XA-5400ES.
Burmester 948, McIntosh MCLK12, Kimber Kable, Siltech, Cardas, Avanti Audio cables.
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February 14, 2017, 07:05 AM #40
Re: HiFi Critic DAC shootout
Mike, like Bob V. is an audiophile first. Living the dream...
Moneypenny, please consider getting an upowered USB cable. It makes a difference.NORMAN
Custom PC with Memory Player Software Suite/ Modded Denon CD transport>Lampi GG1 (and sometimes PACIFIC) DHT tube Dac> Rowen 850W Isolating Transformer/ Rowen SS Preamp and PA1 monoblocs/Lampi Silk power cond. with Phase flipper> Heil AMT KITHARA & Syrinx in parallel hookup. Swiss cables (Reference line) for PC/interconnects and speaker cables. Goldmund Sweetcord PC. FTA Callisto unpowered USB cable. Basic analog: vintage Lenco L78 TT with Rowen mat, Denon MM cart, iFi iPhono2 with 15v Hynes SR3 LPSU. Synology 12 TB NAS. 2nd system:KenWin Bluetooth speaker 3rd system TBI Millemnium amp with Aulos speakers and SB Duo hookup.
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February 14, 2017, 01:14 PM #41
- Join Date
- Nov 2013
- Location
- Minnesota
- Posts
- 1,369
Re: HiFi Critic DAC shootout
Great, now I have to go out and buy a Lampizator!
My Gear- Mains System-Pass X250 amp, BAT VK-51se preamp, Luxman DA-06 DAC, Magnepan 1.6's, Thorens TD-145 TT, Dual Martin Logan Subs, Vintage Luxman T-110 Tuner, Cables-WW Platinum 7 USB, Cardas Parsec XLR, AQ Columbia DBS 72v XLR, Belden 8402 XLR.
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February 14, 2017, 01:21 PM #42
Re: HiFi Critic DAC shootout
I'm in the same pain ...
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February 19, 2017, 12:02 PM #43
- Join Date
- May 2015
- Posts
- 9
Re: HiFi Critic DAC shootout
Was the Big7 using the discrete R2R engine, or a D-S chip?
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February 19, 2017, 12:09 PM #44My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
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February 19, 2017, 12:58 PM #45
- Join Date
- May 2015
- Posts
- 9
Re: HiFi Critic DAC shootout
Thank you, Mike. Since DACs were being fed via usb, do you know if the Atlantic and/or the 7 had the super-clock upgrades?
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February 19, 2017, 02:12 PM #46
Re: HiFi Critic DAC shootout
My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
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February 19, 2017, 02:18 PM #47
Re: HiFi Critic DAC shootout
Hi Moneypenny very interesting your post. I'm very interested to know if Big 7 and Atlantico were being "fed" with PCM or DSD. I have no possibility of upsampling with HQ Player and 99% of my music is PCM and Tidal is PCM, so what I really care about is how good a DAC is, running PCM.
Francisco
Aries Cerat Kassandra Ref. MKII / Taiko Extreme Server / Gryphon Essence Preamplifier and Stereo Amplifier / Rockport Atria I / REL S-812 (2) / Göbel XLR (2), Göbel Ethernet and USB Cables / MIT Magnum MA Speakers Cables / Shunyata Everest 8000 / Shunyata Omega XC (1), Sigma NR V2 (4) and Alfa NR V1 (2) / Taiko Switch / Paul Hynes SR7T Double Rail / Farad Super3 / Doepke DFS-2 40A / GigaWatt G-C16A 2P / Fuse module AHP 4Gi / Center Stage2 0.8, 1.0 and 1.5
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February 19, 2017, 02:22 PM #48
Re: HiFi Critic DAC shootout
PCM only via Tidal. Moneypenny selected approximately 18 tracks ranging from classical to jazz to rock. Blindfolded for the entire shootout. Speakers with Vandy Quattro CT's with Ayre amp/preamp and Aurender as source. Client brought his own USB.
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkMy Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481
"We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."
Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Berkeley Audio, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, Soulution, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.
https://suncoastaudio.com/
Phone: 941-932-0282
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/
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February 19, 2017, 02:24 PM #49
- Join Date
- Nov 2014
- Location
- Ft. Worth, TX
- Posts
- 309
Re: HiFi Critic DAC shootout
Golden Atlantic crushes on both PCM feed and DSD feed in my short experience with it
Tannoy Westminster GR and ST-200 Supertweeter, Finale Audio 300B Mono's, Thoress Full Function Preamp, Thoress 845 Mono's, Found Music 2A3 Mono's, , Line Magnetic 219IA, Lumin A1, Lumin U1, EMM Labs DAC-2X, Lampizator Golden Atlantic DAC, Sansui TU-717, Kenwood KT-7500, Belden 8402 IC's, Duelund 16GA speaker wire
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February 19, 2017, 03:29 PM #50
Re: HiFi Critic DAC shootout
After reading enough post, I think for PCM without upsampling and in a range of € 10,000 to € 13,000 the comparative I would like to do would be: Balanced Golden Atlantic vs Aqua Formula
Francisco
Aries Cerat Kassandra Ref. MKII / Taiko Extreme Server / Gryphon Essence Preamplifier and Stereo Amplifier / Rockport Atria I / REL S-812 (2) / Göbel XLR (2), Göbel Ethernet and USB Cables / MIT Magnum MA Speakers Cables / Shunyata Everest 8000 / Shunyata Omega XC (1), Sigma NR V2 (4) and Alfa NR V1 (2) / Taiko Switch / Paul Hynes SR7T Double Rail / Farad Super3 / Doepke DFS-2 40A / GigaWatt G-C16A 2P / Fuse module AHP 4Gi / Center Stage2 0.8, 1.0 and 1.5
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Audioshark is a community of like minded individuals. Audioshark welcomes participation from all manufacturers and owners of all brands and products. It is our belief that online forums provide a community of like minded audiophiles and music lovers to encourage the growth of this wonderful hobby.
Sincerely,
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AudioShark forum is a leading forum site for High End Audio Discussion, Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater System Discussion, Best Home Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater Installation Discussion etc.
The AudioShark forum was created for sharing the passion of high-end Audio. We have Audiophiles from all over the world participating and sharing their knowledge. From novice to experts, you will find a friendly environment for discussing about High End Audio, Stereo System, Home Theater System, Home Stereo System, Home Theater Installation, Amplifiers, Speakers, Subwoofers, Integrated System, Acoustic treatments & Digital Room Corrections and many more.
At AudioShark, we also have incorporated an exciting Marketplace where members can peruse terrific buys on used gear, as well as meet dealers and discuss the purchase of new gear.
We are as crazy about this hobby as you are! So come on in and join us! Audioshark.org the Friendliest Audio Forum!
Industry Participation Disclosure : The owner and administrator of Audioshark is the owner of Suncoast Audio LLC in Sarasota Florida. Suncoast Audio has a full brick and mortar presence in Sarasota with several great show rooms with many world class brands. More information can be found at http://www.suncoastaudio.com
Audioshark is a community of like minded individuals. Audioshark welcomes participation from all manufacturers and owners of all brands and products. It is our belief that online forums provide a community of like minded audiophiles and music lovers to encourage the growth of this wonderful hobby.
Sincerely,
The Audioshark.org Team
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