MQA now on Tidal

[audiophil]

For those of you using Aurender or methods that are not the desktop app - how are you verifying that you are actually streaming the MQA version of the album when following the instructions above, and NOT simply streaming the Redbook version? Last night I was listening to Tinariwen's Tassili in my listening room via the PC desktop app and my DAC showed 88.2k. I favorited the album and played it back this morning using BubbleUPnP and was only offered 44.1k. According to everything Ive read MQA software decoding is only supported via the desktop app, so Im a bit confused by all of the conflicting reports in this thread.

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[audiophil]

Maybe that could be the next marketing slogan for digital: "I can't believe it's not analog!"

Better copyright that, and quickly! :yes:

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[mep]

Better copyright that, and quickly! :yes:

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Trust me, I thought about it. Just remember, you heard it here first!

[Mike]

Rob-I know you are a digital only kind of guy, so to you the comparison of an album that was originally recorded to analog tape and cut to LP when the master tape was still fresh against the MQA version may be "silly and irrelevant." To those of us who maintain both digital and analog playback in our systems and still prefer the sound of analog, the comparison is neither silly or irrelevant. For the analog believers, you die hard digital guys comparing one sort of PCM file against another sort of PCM file that has been manipulated, folded, and data tucked in for the night until its decoded through MQA doesn't hold much stock for determining which PCM file "is closer to the master recording sound." How would you know which is "closer to the master recording sound"??? Because some light lit up on your DAC that says you are playing an authenticated file? Because you bought into some marketing hype and you believe that MQA has corrected all problems with the original A/D converters used in every recording?

The only way you would ever know which version of a PCM file "is closer to the master recording sound" is if you had an early generation copy of the master tape at your home and you had a professional tape deck to play back that master tape copy and you compared that against all of your PCM files to determine your digital winner. That's still reminiscent of having a margarine tasting contest to see which one comes closer to tasting like butter. That is why I want to hear from someone who has invested in both digital and analog in their system and compares an LP that was cut from the original master tape (pure analog transfer) against the MQA file. Until then, everyone is just comparing different flavors of margarine and trying to convince themselves that one of those flavors actually does taste just like butter. Maybe that could be the next marketing slogan for digital: "I can't believe it's not analog!"

Great post. The other side to that argument is to look at recordings made after 1982 or so. Recordings made to digital. Let's look at digital recordings made today. This is where things get tricky. How do we know what sounds closest to the original? A-D converters have sucked for so long and only recently have gotten better. In speaking with one of my reps who has 95% of his work (sales) on the pro side, and working with many of the top studios around the country, he told me not one records above 24/96. So, right there, 24/192 files are just 24/96 upsampled (something I will give credit to jdandy for, who was the first to say that 24/96 files sounded better in almost every case than 24/192).

So this is where the "compared to what?" argument gets tricky.

MQA attempts to compensate for shortfalls made during the recording. Problems with older microphones, old A-D converters, mixing boards, etc.

I guess if you're listening to music recorded to tape, R2R represents a great baseline. When we talk about music recorded digitally, that's when the waters become muddy.

[JGlacken]

Rick,

Now I cannot seem to get the master albums to appear on my iMac?

[calloway]

RLL1..when you say 'for the "Masters" selection to appear'...do you mean the album itself or the word 'Masters' indicating it is a 'Masters' album..?..thanks for your help..

[Randy Myers]

But seriously, they know/can compensate for every mic, mixing board, ADC combination used in every recording studio.... really.... (and this is not even considering using certain Marshall amps is the studio because of desired distortion they added) but even if we give them a pass and say that they are able to do this (or for that matter could actual track down what was used in each and every recording)... would it not be in the file and therefore when unfolded, weather in a MQA DAC or via software, the assumed advantages should be there.

Of course this is assuming that the recording engineer did not already take into account said recording studio combinations, and already made adjustments for them. I would assume that many of these engineers where/are real professionals and already understood the equipment affects in the studios.

Also, many of the manufactures of the professional digital equipment have came out against MQA, going as far as writing very extensive papers reviewing the entire technology.

With all of this said personally I do strive most to obtain the closest I can to the original recording. Of course I understand the concept of how do we know what is closes go the original recording anyway. However, one basic premises to me is to not continually add additional processing.

[wklie]

But seriously, they know/can compensate for every mic, mixing board, ADC combination used in every recording studio.... really.... (and this is not even considering using certain Marshall amps is the studio because of desired distortion they added) but even if we give them a pass and say that they are able to do this (or for that matter could actual track down what was used in each and every recording)... would it not be in the file and therefore when unfolded, weather in a MQA DAC or via software, the assumed advantages should be there.

Yes, they are in the file - if we are talking about the corrections for the ADC only. That's where the marketing claim of MQA file sounding better even without MQA DAC comes from.

If my speculation is right, the DAC side correction is only in MQA DAC instead of software decoding. Full benefits involve corrections for both ADC and DAC ends, not just one end (that's why MQA emphasized the end-to-end processing.) Each MQA DAC implementation is tuned according to its specific hardware for the correction.

[calloway]

For Lumin owners...how can you tell if the 'Masters' album you added to 'Favorites' is playing in the HD version..?

[CPP]

But seriously, they know/can compensate for every mic, mixing board, ADC combination used in every recording studio.... really.... (and this is not even considering using certain Marshall amps is the studio because of desired distortion they added) but even if we give them a pass and say that they are able to do this (or for that matter could actual track down what was used in each and every recording)... would it not be in the file and therefore when unfolded, weather in a MQA DAC or via software, the assumed advantages should be there.

Of course this is assuming that the recording engineer did not already take into account said recording studio combinations, and already made adjustments for them. I would assume that many of these engineers where/are real professionals and already understood the equipment affects in the studios.

Also, many of the manufactures of the professional digital equipment have came out against MQA, going as far as writing very extensive papers reviewing the entire technology.

With all of this said personally I do strive most to obtain the closest I can to the original recording. Of course I understand the concept of how do we know what is closes go the original recording anyway. However, one basic premises to me is to not continually add additional processing.

A bad recording is a bad recording and no software or fancy hardware is going to fix that unless you put the same musicians back in the studio and do all over again. Just my 2cents

[JGlacken]

I have masters finally playing through my system. Most show 24/44.1
What has been others experiences.
Sounds very good so far.
Too soon to tell if best since sliced bread.


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[still-one]

Rick,

Now I cannot seem to get the master albums to appear on my iMac?

Please make sure you are using the Tidal app and not logging into their page with your web browser. The only way you see the "Masters" choices is when using the Tidal ap. That can downloaded from their website at. http://tidal.com/gb/download

[still-one]

I have masters finally playing through my system. Most show 24/44.1
What has been others experiences.
Sounds very good so far.
Too soon to tell if best since sliced bread.


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Mine all show 88, 96 or 192.

[calloway]

when playing the 'Masters' albums on a Lumin should it show '24/44' ?..my Lumin still shows 14/44 with the Masters albums i have added..

[audiophil]

I have masters finally playing through my system. Most show 24/44.1
What has been others experiences.
Sounds very good so far.
Too soon to tell if best since sliced bread.


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Mine have all displayed 88.2 or 96k during playback. Are you using the desktop app?

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[audiophil]

Mine all show 88, 96 or 192.

What have you found at 192? Would love to check those out.

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[audiophil]

when playing the 'Masters' albums on a Lumin should it show '24/44' ?..my Lumin still shows 14/44 with the Masters albums i have added..

You are not getting Master quality with Lumin, it would appear.

A lot of people seem to be missing the key point - MQA software decoding is ONLY supported via the desktop app.

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[still-one]

What have you found at 192? Would love to check those out.

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Two that I have tagged are Roberta Flack's "Killing Me Softly" and Van Morrison's " Moondance".

It's funny but there are 88 and 96 files that sound better than these two. The original does not have to be 192 to get great sound.

[calloway]

are you using the 'desktop app' to play through your system?..if so..how does that work..?

[still-one]

are you using the 'desktop app' to play through your system?..if so..how does that work..?

If that question is directed at me the answer is NO. After using the Tidal ap to find "Masters" I would like to hear, I then go to Tidal in Sooloos and tag the MQA version to add to my Library. When I output them to my Sooloss endpoint (808v6) they display switches to "MQA. " and shows the original output. 88, 96, 192 or in some cases 44.

[CPP]

You are not getting Master quality with Lumin, it would appear.

A lot of people seem to be missing the key point - MQA software decoding is ONLY supported via the desktop app.

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Correct and to gain the full effect of MQA you need a certified MQA DAC. Lumin cannot do MQA at this time.

[Randy Myers]

"A bad recording is a bad recording and no software or fancy hardware is going to fix that unless you put the same musicians back in the studio and do all over again. Just my 2cents"

Agreed...

[erniejade]

Thanks for posting this thread. I actually just ordered a Lumin D1. It's not supposed to ship for a few days but after reading all of this, now I'm on the fence if I should hold off and see if they do become compatible before going through with it.

[Mike]

http://www.monoandstereo.com/2017/01...-core.html?m=1


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[Rhapsody]

The MQA in the Masters list is now in the 480's..... 100+/day....nice.

[calloway]

Thanks still-one...

[Mike]

•Technics will implement MQA into their Grand Class SU-G30 Network Player amplifier this spring.
•AudioQuest will implement MQA in their DragonFly Red and Black later this month via a free firmware download.
•Audirvana's Plus 3 music player for Mac OS will decode MQA when it's released this spring.
•Pioneer and Onkyo's digital audio players, and Onkyo's new hi-res smartphone, are equipped for MQA.
•The HiResAudio download store has expanded its MQA content with downloads from Warner.
•Mytek's new Mytek Clef headphone amplifier/DAC is MQA-enabled.
•NAD and Bluesound's Pulse Soundbar now supports MQA.
•Bel Canto, Brinkmann, MSB, and Aurender all have products that support MQA.

[calloway]

...can you hear me now"...

[erniejade]

I had confirmation from LH labs that the Vi Tube dac will also be compatible.

[still-one]

The MQA in the Masters list is now in the 480's..... 100+/day....nice.

This has been a fun day trying out both some old and new albums. I wish that they would go back and sort them by Artist to make it easier for us.

[still-one]

•Technics will implement MQA into their Grand Class SU-G30 Network Player amplifier this spring.
•AudioQuest will implement MQA in their DragonFly Red and Black later this month via a free firmware download.
•Audirvana's Plus 3 music player for Mac OS will decode MQA when it's released this spring.
•Pioneer and Onkyo's digital audio players, and Onkyo's new hi-res smartphone, are equipped for MQA.
•The HiResAudio download store has expanded its MQA content with downloads from Warner.
•Mytek's new Mytek Clef headphone amplifier/DAC is MQA-enabled.
•NAD and Bluesound's Pulse Soundbar now supports MQA.
•Bel Canto, Brinkmann, MSB, and Aurender all have products that support MQA.

Following this on a few sites it is good to see converts now that normal music is showing up and not just esoteric releases from the like of 2L.

[audiophil]

I had confirmation from LH labs that the Vi Tube dac will also be compatible.

Maybe this will trickle down to the lowly Pulse line as well :fingers crossed:

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[audiophil]

This has been a fun day trying out both some old and new albums. I wish that they would go back and sort them by Artist to make it easier for us.

+1 Been thinking that all day long...

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[erniejade]

Maybe this will trickle down to the lowly Pulse line as well :fingers crossed:

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Send them a ticket on LH website to ask. Believe it or not, Manny and Larry were fast to respond to mine.

[Rhapsody]

I hate this MQA stuff I was perfectly happy with Tidal and listening to the 16/44.1 tracks. I had so many albums that I liked and listened to regularly.....I was totally happy. NOW, there are only 500ish albums available and NONE of the albums that I want to listen to are in the MQA list, but the MQA files sound so good that I can't get myself to go back and listen to the 16/44.1 stuff that I used to love. Now I don't want to listen to anything but the MQA tracks.

My thoughts are that the higher the system potential the higher it will soar with this new found glory. I find that there are many of the MQA albums sound good but not great, but when you find one of the albums that is a very good or great recording and it responds very well to the MQA processing then I think these albums will compete with vinyl. They do in my set ups.

This is just IMHO, but if you take one of the best MQA recordings and compare it to an ok vinyl recording I know that I would prefer the MQA over the vinyl. If take a top vinyl recording then yes it probably has the edge but it might be that it is just a great recording, not so much the vinyl format.

NOT saying MQA is better than vinyl, but for me, it's the closest sound to vinyl that I have heard from digital.

I love good native DSD, but to me it has it's own great sound, but does not remind me of vinyl....I like/love both DSD and vinyl listening, but they are two different experiences for me. With the MQA files I find myself thinking "this has the same feeling and certain characteristics of vinyl listening".

[La Dolce Vita]

when playing the 'Masters' albums on a Lumin should it show '24/44' ?..my Lumin still shows 14/44 with the Masters albums i have added..

Not sure if this will help you but to get my dac to decode MQA I had to set the TIDAL app to Exclusive Mode. You may want to try it and see if it resolves your issue.


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[La Dolce Vita]

I hate this MQA stuff I was perfectly happy with Tidal and listening to the 16/44.1 tracks. I had so many albums that I liked and listened to regularly.....I was totally happy. NOW, there are only 500ish albums available and NONE of the albums that I want to listen to are in the MQA list, but the MQA files sound so good that I can't get myself to go back and listen to the 16/44.1 stuff that I used to love. Now I don't want to listen to anything but the MQA tracks.

My thoughts are that the higher the system potential the higher it will soar with this new found glory. I find that there are many of the MQA albums sound good but not great, but when you find one of the albums that is a very good or great recording and it responds very well to the MQA processing then I think these albums will compete with vinyl. They do in my set ups.

This is just IMHO, but if you take one of the best MQA recordings and compare it to an ok vinyl recording I know that I would prefer the MQA over the vinyl. If take a top vinyl recording then yes it probably has the edge but it might be that it is just a great recording, not so much the vinyl format.

NOT saying MQA is better than vinyl, but for me, it's the closest sound to vinyl that I have heard from digital.

I love good native DSD, but to me it has it's own great sound, but does not remind me of vinyl....I like/love both DSD and vinyl listening, but they are two different experiences for me. With the MQA files I find myself thinking "this has the same feeling and certain characteristics of vinyl listening".

I completely agree with Bob and his sentiments here regarding MQA. We share the same impression/viewpoint and experience with it thus far.


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[Rhapsody]

I completely agree with Bob and his sentiments here regarding MQA. We share the same impression/viewpoint and experience with it thus far.


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Thx, it's a little risky making such bold statements, glad to have company

[Randy Myers]

Bob, Just curious, what DAC are you running it through again?

[Rhapsody]

Bob, Just curious, what DAC are you running it through again?

Hi Randy, two different systems. One system using an MSB Select II DAC, non MQA at the moment, reading 24/48K. The other system has 3 each 24/96 dacs per speaker (one for each driver), Goldmund Satya speakers which are active and have the dacs/amps built into the speakers. Both system are pumping the very good sounding MQA tracks to levels that I have not experienced with digital before. A lot of the MQA tracks sound ok, but nothing special and would rather a great recording in 16/44.1 vs. the mediocre 24/48.....still goes back to the quality of the original recording, just as with every format. The good MQA titles that are good recordings are off the charts good....and this is without an MQA dac. Should have the new MQA MSB module soon and then my prediction at this point is that it will become my defacto standard for listening. Exciting times and totally unexpected.

[calloway]

La Dolce Vita...when you say 'app' are you talking about your desktop app or your iPad app,if you use one? If you are talking about the iPad app I cannot get my iPad app to show the Masters albums at all.My desktop does. Are there any Lumin users able to have their player read 24/44 when playing the Masters albums and if so exactly how is your desktop/iPad app configured. Thanks ahead of time. This is very frustrating.

[CPP]

La Dolce Vita...when you say 'app' are you talking about your desktop app or your iPad app,if you use one? If you are talking about the iPad app I cannot get my iPad app to show the Masters albums at all.My desktop does. Are there any Lumin users able to have their player read 24/44 when playing the Masters albums and if so exactly how is your desktop/iPad app configured. Thanks ahead of time. This is very frustrating.

Your not going to see it with a Lumin, at this time Lumin does not support MQA. I tried with my Lumin, zip, nada like you. I wish there was a way to rick it, but so far zippo. see this post Lumin support of MQA?

[audio.bill]

A lot of the MQA tracks sound ok, but nothing special and would rather a great recording in 16/44.1 vs. the mediocre 24/48.....still goes back to the quality of the original recording, just as with every format. The good MQA titles that are good recordings are off the charts good....and this is without an MQA dac.

Thanks so much for sharing your impressions, it's very helpful to many of us. Would it be an imposition to ask if you could share a list of the exceptional MQA titles you've discovered? Maybe it could become an active list which other users could add to as a reference, and may be best suited for a new dedicated thread. Exciting times indeed!

[calloway]

CPP...thanks for your reply. Hopefully they will see that most ,if not all Lumin owners, would love to see them upgrade the players to allow MQA use..

[Rhapsody]

Thanks so much for sharing your impressions, it's very helpful to many of us. Would it be an imposition to ask if you could share a list of the exceptional MQA titles you've discovered? Maybe it could become an active list which other users could add to as a reference, and may be best suited for a new dedicated thread. Exciting times indeed!

Hi Bill, thx and it's totally random on the albums. Depending on one's personal taste they might prefer something else. There are too many good ones to list. My experience that about 75% of the titles that I favorite on the desktop app and then play them through the Aurender make me stop in my tracks and take pause at what is going on. But it's all hit and miss. I can't wait for more and more title to become available, especially music that I want to listen to vs. listening to music that happens to be in the Master List.

[erniejade]

This is mainly for streaming correct? Home rips from cd will see no benefit from MQA if I am reading correctly is this correct? If MQA takes off and becomes a standard in the industry, would we need to re-rip our collection to have the benefit of MQA?

[Rhapsody]

This is mainly for streaming correct? Home rips from cd will see no benefit from MQA if I am reading correctly is this correct? If MQA takes off and becomes a standard in the industry, would we need to re-rip our collection to have the benefit of MQA?

Everything that I have said or experienced in the last few days has been regarding streaming Tidal via an Aurender.

[Mike]

http://www.stereophile.com/content/m...mXXDUPyhA3f.97


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[RDSChicago]

Listening to the Joni Mitchell albums on Tidal Masters through a non-MQA Technics music server/DAC, and the screen on the DAC says 96khz. How can this be as I thought the Masters on Tidal were limited to 48khz? In any event, it sounds great!! A noticeable improvement over Tidal HIFI, AFAIAC.

[still-one]

Listening to the Joni Mitchell albums on Tidal Masters through a non-MQA Technics music server/DAC, and the screen on the DAC says 96khz. How can this be as I thought the Masters on Tidal were limited to 48khz? In any event, it sounds great!! A noticeable improvement over Tidal HIFI, AFAIAC.

Are you connected via USB from your laptop to your audio system? If you are and you are using the Tidal Ap I believe you are getting the software decoded MQA via Tidal. I am not 100% sure of that.