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  1. #1
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    Mis-matched subs

    Seeking opinions. I have a small REL sub hooked up in my 2-channel system. I just want to get a little extra bass help. I am not a bass head, and certainly have no desire for any kind of boom at all. I look for clean clear sound, tight bass if you will. In the old days I was never a fan of sub-woofers because I felt they always added more boom then clarity.

    Anyway the little REL is tight and adds a little bass, however I also have a Klipsch sub in my storage room. It is from the Home Theater system hooked to the TV. I have no place that it fits or works with the built in wall unit housing the surround system. I am also not a huge surround buff and am just as happy with 2-channel for the TV .

    The Klipsch has about the same amount of power as the REL, a slightly larger driver (not much) and a bigger box. So my question is this, in your opinion would I be better to use just the REL or would it be worth hooking the un-matched subs up in my system, the REL on one side and the Klipsch on the other? Keep in mind the MC speakers do a pretty decent job on their own so the sub is just to add a little low end fill.

    I know the immediate answer is going to be to purchase a higher end sub, but that is just not possible right now. So what do you think about using mis-matched sub-woofers.
    McIntosh C49, MC152, MR85, R778 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM750ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQPlayer) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Abyss Diana Phi | Schiit Jotunheim 2 | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105

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  2. #2
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    Re: Mis-matched subs

    I sure would give it a try since you already have it. It's not ideal but you just never know until you try it and listen.
    Jock

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  3. #3
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    Re: Mis-matched subs

    Randy

    I would try it at it's lowest crossover setting and then if it is ported see what it sounds like if you stuff the port. It just might work out for the time being and you won't know if you don't try. When you go to set them both up try using acoustic bass jazz like Ray Brown's Soular Energy.
    Main - JVC QL-Y7/Denon DL-301 Mk II, Gold Note PH-10, Jays CDT3 Mk3 , Auralic Aries G2.2, Holo May KTE, Supratek Cabernet, Kinki Studio EX-B7 monoblocks, Verity Audio Otello, (2) Rythmik F12SE, Audio Envy IC, SC & PC's, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Inakustik USB and I2S, (2) Puritan Audio Labs PSM-156 with Groundmaster City, Timbernation rack

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    Greenville, SC- Jays CDT2 Mk 3, Auralic Aries G1, Holo Spring 3 KTE, Supratek Chardonnay, Odyssey Audio Kismet Reference, Rosso Fiorentino Volterra 2, (2) RSL Speedwoofers, iFi Audio Power Station, Wireworld IC's, Inakustik USB and I2s, Triode Wire Lab SC, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Furutech NCF Clear Line, Timbernation rack.

  4. #4
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    Re: Mis-matched subs

    Thanks guys. I think I will go grab it from storage.
    McIntosh C49, MC152, MR85, R778 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM750ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQPlayer) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Abyss Diana Phi | Schiit Jotunheim 2 | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105

    “One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”
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  5. #5
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    Re: Mis-matched subs

    The Klipsch crossover goes from 80-160, is 100 watt, 8 inch ported. The REL crossover goes from 30-120, is 100 watt, 6.5 inch and not ported. So I set the Klipsch to 80 and stuffed the port (great idea) to smooth the boom out. I set the REL to mid point, so about 75. The REL's gain has to be set much higher since the Klipsch takes off like gang busters... not a bad start... oh I positioned each just outside of both speakers... at their stand base.
    McIntosh C49, MC152, MR85, R778 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM750ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQPlayer) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Abyss Diana Phi | Schiit Jotunheim 2 | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105

    “One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”
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  6. #6

    Re: Mis-matched subs

    great stuff. One thing to note, if the magic smoke makes an appearance, be sure to check what the colour is...

  7. #7
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    Re: Mis-matched subs

    Randy.......Having been an observer to the inauguration of your two channel system and watched and read about it's expansion and changes I think it is accurate to say you will ultimately be unhappy with a mismatched subwoofer arrangement. Again, my observations have lead me to believe you tend to be detail oriented. This leads me to believe the mismatch will eventually bug you, perhaps not from a performance standpoint as much as from an aesthetic one.

    My second thought about your post is not all subwoofers are boomy, nor do you have to be a bass-head to appreciate a properly integrated bottom octave in your system. As clean as the Music Culture RL21's sound, the 6.5" midrange/woofer does not reach the frequency depths a good subwoofer does in stride. Even though the RL21's midrange woofer's claimed range is 29Hz, it is substantially rolled off at that point. What's even more important is the inter-modulation distortion generated in the midrange as the driver attempts to reproduce the lowest frequency range that exceeds its capabilities.

    I had a similar experience with the Sonus faber Guarneri Memento speakers that I had in my studio system. On their own they sounded very good, even down into the mid 45Hz territory where they began to roll off quickly below that range. When I added a pair of powered McIntosh XLS112 subwoofers and a Bryston 10B active crossover the performance difference was night and day. By allowing the Bryston crossover to route everything below 70Hz to the subwoofers, thus relieving the Guarneri Memento's of having to deal with the lowest octave, the midrange performance and dynamic range of the GM's improved substantially, with the added benefit of now having a full range performance that included rich deep bass. The advantage of this arrangement proved to be a genuine step up in the system's sound across the board. You can read more about my experience here: Bryston 10B Active Crossover In Studio System

    I said that to make this suggestion. JL Audio has recently introduce a new E-Series of subwoofers. They are reasonably priced and remarkably sophisticated in the different ways they can be incorporated into a system. I have a friend who uses a single JL Audio E112 subwoofer with two way JBL speakers. The E112 allows the low frequency crossover point to send only the frequency range above that point to the power amplifier driving the speakers. In other words, no external crossover is necessary to keep the low frequencies at the subwoofer and everything above the crossover point routed to the left and right channel speakers. This capability can be used with a single subwoofer or a stereo pair. This arrangement would be perfect for your system. The improved midrange performance of the RL20's will astonish you, not to mention the additional dynamic range available from your power amplifier because it no longer has to reproduce the lowest octave, and the E112 subwoofer will reproduce the lowest octave with the clarity and speed you seek.

    Yes, I heard you when you said you didn't want to consider a new purchase. I'm just planting a seed for you to think about. The E-Series JL Audio subwoofers are reasonably priced and are serious performers, and that includes their E110, too.
    Dan

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  8. #8
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    Re: Mis-matched subs

    Thanks Dan... I appreciate the input and am fairly certain I will eventually go in that direction. Yes you can tell I am detail oriented and the cosmetic element of the mis-match will probably drive me crazy. However, at this point, since it was taking up space in storage... why not give it a go .
    McIntosh C49, MC152, MR85, R778 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM750ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQPlayer) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Abyss Diana Phi | Schiit Jotunheim 2 | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105

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  9. #9
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    Re: Mis-matched subs

    Ok Dan, so looking at the JL Audio's (for down the road)... it looks like the output from the pre-amplifier goes to the sub-woofer and then the output from the sub-woofer goes to the amplifier. Too bad it does not utilize XLR balanced ....

    The reasoning makes a ton of sense.... are there other companies that use this type of configuration?

    I am sure at this point any purchases are being put on hold. My wife is talking about maybe selling our house and moving, maybe to Florida even. My sister and brother both have homes in the same complex in Ocala. She is starting to get concerned about our ability to comfortably retire here in California, which we would be able to do in Florida ....
    McIntosh C49, MC152, MR85, R778 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM750ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQPlayer) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Abyss Diana Phi | Schiit Jotunheim 2 | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105

    “One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”
    "You can't use reason to convince anyone out of an argument that they didn't use reason to get into"
    ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

  10. #10
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    Re: Mis-matched subs

    The fact that there is no state or locality income tax plus the lower general property and insurance costs would sure make it easier in addition to having family around. Ocala is a nice town plus kind of gets you close to the middle of the state for travel in any direction. Just don't move to close to Mike or you would probably stay in the dog house.
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    Greenville, SC- Jays CDT2 Mk 3, Auralic Aries G1, Holo Spring 3 KTE, Supratek Chardonnay, Odyssey Audio Kismet Reference, Rosso Fiorentino Volterra 2, (2) RSL Speedwoofers, iFi Audio Power Station, Wireworld IC's, Inakustik USB and I2s, Triode Wire Lab SC, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Furutech NCF Clear Line, Timbernation rack.

  11. #11
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    Re: Mis-matched subs

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Myers View Post
    Ok Dan, so looking at the JL Audio's (for down the road)... it looks like the output from the pre-amplifier goes to the sub-woofer and then the output from the sub-woofer goes to the amplifier. Too bad it does not utilize XLR balanced ....

    The reasoning makes a ton of sense.... are there other companies that use this type of configuration?

    I am sure at this point any purchases are being put on hold. My wife is talking about maybe selling our house and moving, maybe to Florida even. My sister and brother both have homes in the same complex in Ocala. She is starting to get concerned about our ability to comfortably retire here in California, which we would be able to do in Florida ....
    Randy.......I wouldn't let the unbalance connections to the E-Series subwoofers concern you. There are plenty of audio engineers and manufacturers who will argue that unbalanced connections sound better than balanced connections.

    I am fairly certain you should be able to find other subwoofer manufacturers who provide similar connection schemes as the JL Audio E-Series. Of course you can always put a Bryston 10B Sub active crossover into your system for even greater control and balanced or unbalanced connections. You order the connections you want and it get's built that way. Mine had the balanced connectors.

    Retiring to Florida from California is a good idea. I lived in San Francisco for years, then Portland, Oregon for years before ultimately moving back to my home state of Florida. I am not a beach person so living along the coast was not in my plans. I bought property and built my home in rural north central Florida. I have no regrets. You would like Ocala. It is a beautiful area of Florida, rolling hills, horse country with many beautiful horse ranches dotting the area. It is only 40 miles south of Gainesville, Florida where there is a great deal of culture, art, and music that surrounds the University of Florida. Ocala is only 90 miles from my home and about 110 miles from Mike's home. No state income tax is a big advantage of living in Florida, and I am certain Florida's 7% sales tax beats California's sales tax rate. Great year round weather, too. Central Florida is a great place to live.
    Dan

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  12. #12
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    Re: Mis-matched subs

    Thanks for the input guys.... Florida is definitely sounding like it may be the winner. It is going to be a process of course...
    McIntosh C49, MC152, MR85, R778 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM750ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQPlayer) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Abyss Diana Phi | Schiit Jotunheim 2 | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105

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  13. #13
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    Re: Mis-matched subs

    Plenty of systems to visit if you get here.
    Main - JVC QL-Y7/Denon DL-301 Mk II, Gold Note PH-10, Jays CDT3 Mk3 , Auralic Aries G2.2, Holo May KTE, Supratek Cabernet, Kinki Studio EX-B7 monoblocks, Verity Audio Otello, (2) Rythmik F12SE, Audio Envy IC, SC & PC's, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Inakustik USB and I2S, (2) Puritan Audio Labs PSM-156 with Groundmaster City, Timbernation rack

    Family Room - Oppo UDP-203, Auralic Aries, Aqua La Voce S3, Kinki Studio EX-M1+, Nola KO, (2) Rythmik F-12G, Wireworld SC & IC's, Neotech PC's, SurgeX SA-1810

    Greenville, SC- Jays CDT2 Mk 3, Auralic Aries G1, Holo Spring 3 KTE, Supratek Chardonnay, Odyssey Audio Kismet Reference, Rosso Fiorentino Volterra 2, (2) RSL Speedwoofers, iFi Audio Power Station, Wireworld IC's, Inakustik USB and I2s, Triode Wire Lab SC, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Furutech NCF Clear Line, Timbernation rack.

  14. #14
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    Re: Mis-matched subs

    Now you are getting me worried

    Well Cheryal started telling the kids (grown kids) tonight that we are going to be moving to Florida... it has gotten very real very quick... ... so I guess it begins...
    McIntosh C49, MC152, MR85, R778 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM750ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQPlayer) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Abyss Diana Phi | Schiit Jotunheim 2 | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105

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    "You can't use reason to convince anyone out of an argument that they didn't use reason to get into"
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  15. #15
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    Re: Mis-matched subs

    Randy,
    My $0.02...Not only do unmatched subs not harm things, I think they are an advantage. I would agree to stuffing ports as I'm not a fan of ported subs, but if you read Geddes, et al on the Swarm concept you'll see that mismatched gain, damping, level, and crossover frequency can be used fairly simply to smooth bass modes below 200 Hz (which will nearly always be an issue in normal-sized rooms regardless of matched or mismatched subs).

    AC

  16. #16
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    Re: Mis-matched subs

    Thanks for the input AC. Much appreciated.
    McIntosh C49, MC152, MR85, R778 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM750ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQPlayer) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Abyss Diana Phi | Schiit Jotunheim 2 | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105

    “One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”
    "You can't use reason to convince anyone out of an argument that they didn't use reason to get into"
    ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

  17. #17
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    Re: Mis-matched subs

    Randy, Ocala my old home town.
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  18. #18
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    Re: Mis-matched subs

    Oh, cool... well I believe we have decided... but now comes the fun times of selling and arranging for our new house to be built. So honest opinion... Is Ocala the very nice community that my sister and my brother are telling us?
    McIntosh C49, MC152, MR85, R778 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM750ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQPlayer) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Abyss Diana Phi | Schiit Jotunheim 2 | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105

    “One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”
    "You can't use reason to convince anyone out of an argument that they didn't use reason to get into"
    ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

  19. #19
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    Dan

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    Sony DAT 60ES, Nakamichi BX-300, Micro Seiki DD40 w/m505A tonearm, Ortofon Cadenza Blue, PS Audio P10, Furutech Flux 50, Stillpoints Ultra Mini, PMC EB1i, JL Audio f113

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  20. #20
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    Re: Mis-matched subs

    Hey Dan, Thanks for the excellent links! I think we will be very happy there.... I will be happy when we get settled.... I hate this part of it all, although putting together what we want in the house is always a fun thing ...
    McIntosh C49, MC152, MR85, R778 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM750ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQPlayer) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Abyss Diana Phi | Schiit Jotunheim 2 | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105

    “One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”
    "You can't use reason to convince anyone out of an argument that they didn't use reason to get into"
    ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

  21. #21
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    Re: Mis-matched subs

    Ok, so I hooked up the Klipsch. I stuffed the port because without this it was way too over powering. I played around with crossovers, level adjustments, phasing, etc. I tried adjustments on both, but mainly on the Klipsch. To be real honest, I did not like the sound with the Klipsch so much. Yes, it could add a lot of bass, but it almost seemed too boomy unless it was set to barely being on. It also seemed to muddy the bottom end a lot. The REL, although not adding a ton of knock your socks off bass is very tight and smooth. The bottom end it adds is very smooth and enjoyable, adding just a little more feel on the kick drum or feel to the acoustic bass strings.

    I put the Klipsch back in the closet ... I may eventually look into adding a JL or a second little REL, or a bigger REL (or two)... but for now I think I prefer the smoothness of my system with just the REL, without the Klipsch added.

    When we move, depending on setup in the new house, maybe the Klipsch will go back with the surround system...
    McIntosh C49, MC152, MR85, R778 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM750ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQPlayer) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Abyss Diana Phi | Schiit Jotunheim 2 | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105

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  22. #22
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    Re: Mis-matched subs

    Randy,
    I should have added that the multiple subs are pretty easy to set up IF you have a mic and REW or other analysis software. Doing it by ear would be pretty tough.

    I started with one sub in my listening position, did the "subwoofer crawl" to find the best/loudest bass locations, chose the most convenient, put the 1st sub there and repeated the process with the second sub. Once the subs were placed, I did a frequency sweep, identified a null, and adjusted cut-off, damping, and volume on one and then the other to minimize the null, repeated the pink noise and dithered the settings on each sub to make sure I ended up with the best response.

  23. #23
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    Re: Mis-matched subs

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Myers View Post
    Oh, cool... well I believe we have decided... but now comes the fun times of selling and arranging for our new house to be built. So honest opinion... Is Ocala the very nice community that my sister and my brother are telling us?
    Well I was resided there from the 2nd grade until I moved to the awful Orlando area in 2002. I enjoyed Ocala, if you like fishing, golf, hiking, bike riding there are lots of opportunities.
    2chl : Vincent Sp331MkII, W4S STP-SE Stage 2, Kef 201/2, KEF 140, Vapor Breeze, Lumin, Bryston CD, BHA-1, Quicksilver Headamp, HD650, HD800s, HD820's, Dan Clark 1.1, Focal Stellia, OPPO 203, 105. ( Boxed up: Pass Xa-30.5, VPI Classic, Dynavector DV-20XL, Manley Chinook, Cadenza Bronze)

  24. #24
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    Re: Mis-matched subs

    Nice.... so you are not a fan of Orlando eh ....
    McIntosh C49, MC152, MR85, R778 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM750ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQPlayer) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Abyss Diana Phi | Schiit Jotunheim 2 | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105

    “One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”
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  25. #25
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    Re: Mis-matched subs

    Randy

    Unless you like being surrounded by tourists, traffic and illogical road patterns not much to recommend about Orlando except to visit or the University.
    Main - JVC QL-Y7/Denon DL-301 Mk II, Gold Note PH-10, Jays CDT3 Mk3 , Auralic Aries G2.2, Holo May KTE, Supratek Cabernet, Kinki Studio EX-B7 monoblocks, Verity Audio Otello, (2) Rythmik F12SE, Audio Envy IC, SC & PC's, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Inakustik USB and I2S, (2) Puritan Audio Labs PSM-156 with Groundmaster City, Timbernation rack

    Family Room - Oppo UDP-203, Auralic Aries, Aqua La Voce S3, Kinki Studio EX-M1+, Nola KO, (2) Rythmik F-12G, Wireworld SC & IC's, Neotech PC's, SurgeX SA-1810

    Greenville, SC- Jays CDT2 Mk 3, Auralic Aries G1, Holo Spring 3 KTE, Supratek Chardonnay, Odyssey Audio Kismet Reference, Rosso Fiorentino Volterra 2, (2) RSL Speedwoofers, iFi Audio Power Station, Wireworld IC's, Inakustik USB and I2s, Triode Wire Lab SC, Triode Wire Lab PC's, Furutech NCF Clear Line, Timbernation rack.

  26. #26
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    Re: Mis-matched subs

    Yea, sounds like a place for a day trip but not somewhere to live ...
    McIntosh C49, MC152, MR85, R778 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM750ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQPlayer) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Abyss Diana Phi | Schiit Jotunheim 2 | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105

    “One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”
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  27. #27
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    Re: Mis-matched subs

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Myers View Post
    Nice.... so you are not a fan of Orlando eh ....
    Nope, traffic traffic and even more traffic and Toll roads and oh yes did I mention traffic
    2chl : Vincent Sp331MkII, W4S STP-SE Stage 2, Kef 201/2, KEF 140, Vapor Breeze, Lumin, Bryston CD, BHA-1, Quicksilver Headamp, HD650, HD800s, HD820's, Dan Clark 1.1, Focal Stellia, OPPO 203, 105. ( Boxed up: Pass Xa-30.5, VPI Classic, Dynavector DV-20XL, Manley Chinook, Cadenza Bronze)

  28. #28
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    Re: Mis-matched subs

    Hehe.... so there is some traffic in Orlando ... Well that will only be encountered when wife does a shopping trip (outlets, Costco, malls, etc.... Frys )... or when someone visits that wants to go to Disney.... can almost guarantee that traffic is not any worse then what the 101 has become every day... even on the Central Coast, but certainly if you venture south of Santa Barbara.
    McIntosh C49, MC152, MR85, R778 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM750ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQPlayer) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Abyss Diana Phi | Schiit Jotunheim 2 | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105

    “One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”
    "You can't use reason to convince anyone out of an argument that they didn't use reason to get into"
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  29. #29
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    Re: Mis-matched subs

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Myers View Post
    Hehe.... so there is some traffic in Orlando ... Well that will only be encountered when wife does a shopping trip (outlets, Costco, malls, etc.... Frys )... or when someone visits that wants to go to Disney.... can almost guarantee that traffic is not any worse then what the 101 has become every day... even on the Central Coast, but certainly if you venture south of Santa Barbara.
    Oh yes CA traffic is the pits but whats got Orlando all screwed up is the I-4 expansion project. I-4 runs from Daytona and goes right through downtown Orlando on to Tampa. The work is centered around a 21 mile area right in the middle of Orlando. More than a year into the job, the I-4 Ultimate project is humming right along toward its scheduled completion in 2021. So the roads are all backed up everywhere with detours etc.. its a blast.
    2chl : Vincent Sp331MkII, W4S STP-SE Stage 2, Kef 201/2, KEF 140, Vapor Breeze, Lumin, Bryston CD, BHA-1, Quicksilver Headamp, HD650, HD800s, HD820's, Dan Clark 1.1, Focal Stellia, OPPO 203, 105. ( Boxed up: Pass Xa-30.5, VPI Classic, Dynavector DV-20XL, Manley Chinook, Cadenza Bronze)

  30. #30
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    Re: Mis-matched subs

    Fun fun... sounds like for years whenever you were going south, Yankees game in Anaheim, Frys in Oxnard, etc.... Santa Barbara would always be backed up because of non-stop construction...
    McIntosh C49, MC152, MR85, R778 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM750ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQPlayer) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Abyss Diana Phi | Schiit Jotunheim 2 | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105

    “One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”
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  31. #31
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    Re: Mis-matched subs

    Well I have been playing around a little with the sub just to get it at it's best until the move.... I think I got it doing a very good job by running it low level (I hate running subs from high level input even though REL prefers this) and burying the sub in the corner. This give the REL an added boost from the walls and brings out the nice tight bass that it does so well in. Since I am not a bass head but want some added tight bass it appears to give me a lot of what I like. The little REL actually is currently impressing the heck out of me ....
    McIntosh C49, MC152, MR85, R778 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM750ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQPlayer) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Abyss Diana Phi | Schiit Jotunheim 2 | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105

    “One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”
    "You can't use reason to convince anyone out of an argument that they didn't use reason to get into"
    ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

  32. #32

    Re: Mis-matched subs

    Glad you're finding something that works, Randy. Actually, I do run mis-matched subs, and I'm a bit concerned about going matched down the road. In my case, it has to do with non-room symmetric positioning of the two different subs. I have stereo subs located right next to L/R speakers. One of them is ported, and the other sealed. However, my L/R speakers are not symmetrically positioned left-right along the room width dimension. It's a large room, and having them off-center doesn't cause soundstage problems in mids/highs, luckily. However, this means that one sub is almost in the middle of the L-R room dimension, while the other is relatively close to a corner (2ft from left wall, and 3ft from front wall).

    Aesthetically, I would prefer the ported sub to be the one on the left and somewhat close to a corner. However, due to its porting, it loads the room differently and stronger than the sealed sub. Specifically, when I used REW and put each sub in the two different locations and got independent frequency response graphs from them, it's clear that the sealed sub benefits from room boundary reinforcement. From mid-30's on down, it evens out when in the corner location. While when in the other location, frequency response drops strongly below 30hz. The ported sub stays pretty linear on down to 20hz when in the middle-room location, and becomes even stronger in the corner location. When you put the two together, having the ported close to the corner and sealed in the middle of the room, it's a boomy and uneven frequency response. When you reverse it with sealed close to the corner, and ported in middle room, it's a pretty even frequency response across the board - plus I happen to get some beneficial complementarity in knocking down room nodes/modes that I don't get in the reverse.

    So, in my case, non-matching subs actually lets me get a pretty linear response without having to resort to parametric EQ functions on the plate amps or an electronic crossover.

    But I definitely couldn't have figured all that out by ears alone.

  33. #33
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    Re: Mis-matched subs

    That is very cool that you got it to work out. I will wait until we get into the new house ( a long time from now) to look into it further.
    McIntosh C49, MC152, MR85, R778 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM750ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQPlayer) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Abyss Diana Phi | Schiit Jotunheim 2 | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105

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  34. #34
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    Re: Mis-matched subs

    FYI, mixing sealed and ported subs is generally a bad idea, it can cause cancellations on the bottom end of the spectrum.


    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche

    2 Channel: Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE, Wyred 4 Sound DAC-2, Manley Mahi Monoblocks, DIY SEOS Waveguide/Dipole Bass Towers
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    PC: Wyred 4 Sound mINT, KEF Q100, Hifiman HE-6

  35. #35

    Re: Mis-matched subs

    Quote Originally Posted by Face View Post
    FYI, mixing sealed and ported subs is generally a bad idea, it can cause cancellations on the bottom end of the spectrum.
    Yes, well that's where having REW and a mic at your ear position helps to determine what's working and what's not. I wouldn't want to try to dial in any two subs without this kind of tool. Or really even one sub...

  36. #36
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    Re: Mis-matched subs

    Quote Originally Posted by Genjamon View Post
    Yes, well that's where having REW and a mic at your ear position helps to determine what's working and what's not. I wouldn't want to try to dial in any two subs without this kind of tool. Or really even one sub...
    I added a pair of near field subs to the love seat in my HT, that was the only time I've had flat response without any EQ.


    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche

    2 Channel: Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE, Wyred 4 Sound DAC-2, Manley Mahi Monoblocks, DIY SEOS Waveguide/Dipole Bass Towers
    HT: Marantz AV7005, Wyred 4 MMC5, DIY SEOS Towers, DIY 7CF Sealed 18" Subs
    PC: Wyred 4 Sound mINT, KEF Q100, Hifiman HE-6

  37. #37
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    Re: Mis-matched subs

    TBI Magellan subs! Seemless integration.
    http://tbisound.com/dsp_products_subwoofers.asp

    Thank me later.
    NORMAN
    Custom PC with Memory Player Software Suite/ Modded Denon CD transport>Lampi GG1 (and sometimes PACIFIC) DHT tube Dac> Rowen 850W Isolating Transformer/ Rowen SS Preamp and PA1 monoblocs/Lampi Silk power cond. with Phase flipper> Heil AMT KITHARA & Syrinx in parallel hookup. Swiss cables (Reference line) for PC/interconnects and speaker cables. Goldmund Sweetcord PC. FTA Callisto unpowered USB cable. Basic analog: vintage Lenco L78 TT with Rowen mat, Denon MM cart, iFi iPhono2 with 15v Hynes SR3 LPSU. Synology 12 TB NAS. 2nd system:KenWin Bluetooth speaker 3rd system TBI Millemnium amp with Aulos speakers and SB Duo hookup.

  38. #38
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    Re: Mis-matched subs

    It has been a long time since posting in this thread. First off, after a few months and dealing with the kids, etc., we decided to stay here on the Central Coast of California. We figured no matter where we go there will be pluses and minusis, but here is pretty amazing (although expensive)... and we are settled. The kids and my audio club are thrilled. Oh, we took the house off the market.

    On the sub, I decided to add a basic but solid KEF. Besides being my favorite speaker company they also bring a passive into the mix. Since the one channel is close to the wall, keeping the REL close to the corner but getting the KEF with a slightly larger driver and passive out of the opposing corner seems to work really well!

    So far happy with the mix.
    McIntosh C49, MC152, MR85, R778 | T+A DAC 8 DSD | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM750ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQPlayer) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Abyss Diana Phi | Schiit Jotunheim 2 | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105

    “One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”
    "You can't use reason to convince anyone out of an argument that they didn't use reason to get into"
    ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

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Mis-matched subs

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