Product specifications. Should we make the effort to validate?

[Golucid]

Would it be reasonable to assume that when we purchase a product that the item meets the specifications that the manufacture presents to the novice consumer?

Do we make the casual effort to verify and if so...what is a credible verification process?

I know that I blindly accept specification claims and have never once looked to prove that these specification claims are truthful. Frankly, I have no idea how to validate a manufacture specification claims. Be it Apple, McIntosh, Sony, LG or any manufacture for that mater. How do we verify that what we are buying is actually what the manufacture claims? I don't know...I just choose to trust them and hope that it's all true.

In recent weeks, I inadvertently had my McIntosh C1000 tested for noise and learned the following that now leads me to question manufacture specification claims.

I state inadvertently because the test performed was not a request and I was not suspicious, it was an end result that 'poked the bear'. Now I ask myself, is what these audio manufactures claim actually truthful, mostly true, partially true, not true at all, or do I simply have a manufacture defect? How does once go about validating ones investment?

Regarding the test, there is a high frequency issue that is not ordinarily heard until you introduce a pro mastering product into the McIntosh loop. The pro device is best described as a bit of a a tattletale. The nature of the product is to audibly tell you the truth about the signal being distributed - at least, that is how it is explained to me.

I learned that normally, my ears would never now that my C1000 is a bit noisy in the high frequency range. But...since I normally can not hear that range of signal...I ask...does it matter?

Back to the pro mastering device. The technician determining product fault in writing stated the following: “I found (300-500 mV random spikes of 100-200 uS at a period of 100-500mS) continuously on the output of their unit." Their unit, the McIntosh C1000. I asked the technician. Is it the Tube or Solid State end. The reply. Both ends are noisy. To me that is a bit odd to have both products producing a fault?

We as consumers and uncommonly passionate about our adoration for tunes - invest 10s to 100s of thousands of dollars into products that make technical claims that we have purchased the most pure and elite products on the market to enjoy what we love most....music.

So...how do we go about validating manufacture claims?

Granted, the test was done by another vendor and likely predisposition to defend their product. I get that and it is fair to project some dis-credibility. Does it makes sense to hire a reputable third neutral part testing facility that is scientifically controlled/balanced test the products...which I am doing on this week? Expensive? You bet. But, at this point, I have already invested financially...why not validate all my equipment...right?

On the the other hand, it was presented to me by a friend to just suck it up [digest the pro-audio master device loss...don't use it] and remove the tattletale component and turn to to a blind eye. Accept the flaw and move on. This is certainly the easier and least expensive path, yes?

Have you tested your products and do they meet the specification claims? Of course, simply buying an oscilloscope from Amazon isn't enough. From what I have learned, is that you have to bring your products to a facility that is a LAB. Balanced. A professional testing facility. If you are to have any credibility...just a guess, you need to go to a military grade facility and above test your gear.

Thoughts?

[Mike]

I guess there are a lot of questions here. Is the testing equipment of the manufacturer calibrated right is the first question.

This reminds me of my little Yamamoto 45 amp, rated at 2 watts. I asked a friend to test the amp for power and distortion. He returned the amp and said "it's not even 2 watts with a good wind behind it". The amp measured 800mw and the distortion was so high, their equipment couldn't measure it. That gave me a good chuckle. But boy it sure sounds good!

And that's the next point. Do we listen with our eyes (measurements) or our ears?

If you love the sound of your MC1000, I wouldn't let some conflicting measurements bother you.

[Alpinist]

Welcome back David! How is your leg feeling?

Best,
Ken

[still-one]

If you were happy with the sound before the test, why wouldn't you be happy with it after the test? Have you contacted McIntosh to ask their opinion whether: 1) the test is valid in their eyes 2) whether the unit could have an issue.

[asindc]

If you were happy with the sound before the test, why wouldn't you be happy with it after the test? Have you contacted McIntosh to ask their opinion whether: 1) the test is valid in their eyes 2) whether the unit could have an issue.

This.

[Golucid]

If you were happy with the sound before the test, why wouldn't you be happy with it after the test?

The C1000 offer as no tone controls. For me, I wanted a bit more treble. I was offered some advice from a few folks on AA/AS and purchased one of the suggested products. Millennia NSEQ-4. The device itself has a phenomenal reputation and Millennia has a mighty impressive client list in the pro-master music community.

I am no expert...but as I understand from their enginner. Supposedly, the unit passes through the device any and all signals...and this includes the alleged noise. If there is anything there...it will pass it and you will heart it. The noise is present even when there no sound being pushed by CD1100, MB100 or the MT10. And the noise is prominent at the left channel. The noise sounds destructive to the point you turn the device off or the entire system.

Back to your question. Of course, with the device removed from the loop, the system sounds fine less the desired treble I would like to make more evident.

Have you contacted McIntosh to ask their opinion whether: 1) the test is valid in their eyes 2) whether the unit could have an issue.

I've been in touch with both Ron C and Dan Wakefield, VP of sales, North America. Dan advised me that both manufactures are in touch. Dan suggested I mail the entire system to McIntosh. Yikes. I looked a bit into shipping and the risks. I has been suggested I use a shipping skid to make sure "boxes" are not tossed about. A skid will require manual and much safer handling. All expenses including any repairs are at my expense.

As to the calibrated room. Both parties have calibrated rooms and I imagine will have differing views and products with differing proprietary specification baselines. What those are - are not likely to be made public.

The answer is easy, don't use the NSEQ-4 and accept the financial loss...tossing the unit into figurative trash [closet]. But my curiosity is getting the best of me. We all like to read about specifications and love to read about how 'quiet' 'the noise floor' 'all of the audio buzz words. I do not know a single audio consumer with a calibrated lab that can do testing let alone have any credibility. Setting aside specific brand manufactures because my question is more broad. How does one validate technical specification claims, particular in the area of technology, are true or not?

[Golucid]

Do we listen with our eyes (measurements) or our ears?

Mike, great point. My thought is that manufactures post specifications in ads because it does give a bit of a marketing nudge.

[Golucid]

Welcome back David! How is your leg feeling?

Best,
Ken

Hi Ken. I recovered from the Skiing accident and then had another accident after. I practice many sports and use Yoga as a means to keep my flexible. I was doing my usual hand stands and came down too the mat hard on my right foot and sprained my right ankle and once again, left the injury rendered me unable to walk for a few weeks. Hard to imagine, the ankle sprain hurt way more than the calf muscle injury - sheesh! My doctor is baffled as to my habit of injuring that side of my body regularly. The recovery is coming along and I should be in tip top shape to ski again this winter. LOL. I now have a fairly impressive home pharmacy.