A Plea for Michael Borresen - Page 4
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  1. #31
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    Re: A Plea for Michael Borresen

    Passion, let's look at other words for it from the thesaurus: affection, ardor, dedication, devotion, excitement, fervor, fury, intensity, joy, rage, resentment, zeal, agony, eagerness, ecstasy, frenzy, indignation, misery, rapture, storm, transport, vehemence, wrath, zest, affectivity.

    There is this whole range of words and feelings to describe it. What else but passion drive us to invest the time and resources that we do to this pursuit? The words described above, speaking for myself, are all of the feelings that I can experience in one listening session!

    So the designer has made an upgrade to the D3's popularly known as D3v2 last Spring. The bass issues were supposed to be tamed. Rumor was that technology from the upper level "statement speaker" was adopted into the upgrade. And yet the bass response can still be befuddling.

    I feel for you Mark. We take elaborate measures such as granite slabs and bass ports to try and tame and yet the results can still be less than satisfactory.

    I wonder why it is that supposedly in Europe where the rooms are different sizes the D3's seem to pose less of a problem?
    Le Roy

    Austin, Tx : Soulution 520 preamp, 501 mono blocks, 541 SACD/560 DAC w/ Network Streaming, Raidho D3.1, Lumin U1, Uptone Audio Modded Mac Mini w/ MMK fanless kit & JS-2 LPS, Regen, Ansuz Diamond Loom, Oppo 105D, QNAP TS-451+

    Chicagoland : Soulution 725 preamp, 711 stereo amp, 541 SACD/560 DAC w/ Network Streaming, Raidho D5.1, Naim UnitiServe 2TB, Aurender W-20 Ansuz d-tc Loom (complete), Teac X1000 R2R, QNAP TS-451+

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  2. #32
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    Re: A Plea for Michael Borresen

    Mark:

    No animosity towards you here I can assure you. It was the kick-off of the NFL season and my emotions (I HATE Seattle and love drinking beer) may have contributed to my reading more into your quip about us not sharing the same tastes in speakers than you intended.

    As for the forum being a place to share system/component weaknesses, I wholeheartedly agree. If you've read my posts in the past, you'll find that I've done plenty of the same.

    FWIW, my experience with Raidho mirrors yours. Certain amps that offer some truly desired qualities won't play "nice." Others that do, often miss out on the very same qualities. We compromise because we have to in order to max/min what we individually find positive/negative (in every system).

    Here's to hoping that Raidho is listening.
    Michael

    Magico S5s; PASS Labs Xs150s and Xs preamplifier; Lumin A1; Synergistic Research Galileo LE Powercell, Galileo LE speaker cables and interconnects, Galileo LE Analog and Digital power cords, Transporter Ultra SE, Tranquility Bases, MiGs, HFTs, XOTs, FEQ, Vibratron and Bass Station.

  3. #33
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    A Plea for Michael Borresen

    Mike - I know what you're saying as well. You're tired of the BS. You want there to be one truth - "this is the most amazing product and it will work in every system and in every room - guaranteed or your money back." Unfortunately, synergy takes time and patience - and admittedly, most of us (myself included) aren't patient enough and willing enough to experiment.

    I know you're frustrated. You wanted the Raidho's and Pass amps to work beautifully together and they didn't. I don't blame you. The first go around was frustrating for all of us. But admittedly, I don't think any of us were prepared to sell our beloved mega monoblocks and cables and do what the speakers needed. The second go around, I was more prepared, and you would have been too....if you had chose to.

    If you read my post on page one of this thread, the second go around, I knew exactly what I needed to make the D3's reach their full potential. I had zero issues with everything I tried - EXCEPT - for the Hegel H300 which was just too bass heavy - odd for an integrated. If I wasn't hell bent to try high efficient speakers and a little SET amp, I would still have them today and I still want the D5's down the road.

    Mark loves the Hegel and Mark loves the Raidho's, but like your children who you love equally, sometimes they just don't get along.


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  4. #34
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    Re: A Plea for Michael Borresen

    Damn kids . I joke with the wife that I'm going to throw them off our deck sometimes.

    I did read your post about monos/integrateds. While I haven't listened to enough of them to draw any real conclusions, my experience with integrateds had always left me wanting just that last one or two things that they couldn't provide (stage depth, extension and/or dimensionality).

    We'll need to get together one day. I wouldn't mind hearing Raidho again, if only to prove to myself the (un)soundness of my decision to move on.
    Michael

    Magico S5s; PASS Labs Xs150s and Xs preamplifier; Lumin A1; Synergistic Research Galileo LE Powercell, Galileo LE speaker cables and interconnects, Galileo LE Analog and Digital power cords, Transporter Ultra SE, Tranquility Bases, MiGs, HFTs, XOTs, FEQ, Vibratron and Bass Station.

  5. #35
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    Re: A Plea for Michael Borresen

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Having been the first (or one of the first) in America to own the D3 v1 and the first to own the D3 v2 and the D1's, I have some perspective on this subject.

    First, let's not turn this into a bash Raidho thread. Raidho's (if you've ever heard them) can do things that no other speaker can do. Their holographic, 3D presentation is class leading for a traditional monopole speaker. The Raidho tweeter is also one of the smoothest, yet most detailed I've ever heard. And let's not forget, these speakers are sleek and slender, with a high WAF factor.

    The first conversation I had with Michael Borresen, we discussed proper amplification. What he told me still holds true today: VAC tube amps or a nice little integrated - something like a SimAudio, Jeff Rowland, Burmester or similar.

    I tried to buck what he recommended by putting Classe CAM-600 monos on my first D3's. I then tried an assortment of other amps and it wasn't until I tried my friends VAC amps, my little JOB225 and my little Marantz amp that I started to hear a LOT less bass.

    As I continued with version 2 of the D3's, I tried many amps again and settled on the VAC phi200's as the perfect combination (for me). ZERO - and I mean ZERO bass issues. The Rowland S2, Devialet and others were also excellent.

    Here in America, we love our mega watt monoblocks (guilty as charged). What do most mega watt monoblocks produce with their massive power supplies? BASS! LOTS of bass. What do we not need more of with Raidho speakers? BASS!

    Putting megawatt stereo or monoblock amplifiers are Raidho speakers is akin to trying to operate a laser with oven mitts. You can do it, but it won't work well.

    What does Michael use to voice his Raidho speakers? A Burmester integrated.

    Yes, some integrated amps may still have too much bass. The mega powerful Hegel H300 for example. You need to experiment. If you're opposed to VAC tube amps, SimAudio, Jeff Rowland, etc. are good places to start.

    I will let others discuss the benefits of different cables, mechanical and electrical grounding. I found these things helped treat the symptoms, but not the cause.

    So, the good news is that owning Raidho D1, D2 or D3's means you don't need to spend $60,000 on kilowatt monoblocks. The bad news is that you're going to have to change the way you approach amplification. If you purchase the big D5's....well...I'm sure the megawatt monoblocks will work well. Raidho demonstrates the new D5's with Constellation monos. But I've personally found Constellation amps to be lacking in bass anyway....YMMV.

    Accept the recommendations by their designer and you will have a very happy Raidho experience. Try to buck the trend with your 200 pound stereo or monoblock amps and you will get frustrated.

    Less is more.
    Agree 100% first time i ever heard the Raidho's D-1s was with Jeff Rowland this system exactly - - - Raidho D-1 speaker & Jeff Rowland.jpg - - - i was floored that such a small speaker could sound like this the second time i heard them was with Bel Canto electronics and they did NOT sound right my friends and i all prefered the small Raidho X-1s with the Jeff Rowland gear that was in the other room at the show and by far careful matching is everything.
    André - - - Keep it simple system
    Amp = Chord CPM-2600
    Source = Chord One
    Speakers = Acoustat 1+1s highly modified
    Life without Acoustat is possible BUT senseless.

  6. #36
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    Re: A Plea for Michael Borresen

    Quote Originally Posted by mdkim View Post
    Mark:

    No animosity towards you here I can assure you. It was the kick-off of the NFL season and my emotions (I HATE Seattle and love drinking beer) may have contributed to my reading more into your quip about us not sharing the same tastes in speakers than you intended.

    As for the forum being a place to share system/component weaknesses, I wholeheartedly agree. If you've read my posts in the past, you'll find that I've done plenty of the same.

    FWIW, my experience with Raidho mirrors yours. Certain amps that offer some truly desired qualities won't play "nice." Others that do, often miss out on the very same qualities. We compromise because we have to in order to max/min what we individually find positive/negative (in every system).

    Here's to hoping that Raidho is listening.
    Michael, that was such a great post ! Thank you ! I really feel that these speakers are worth the trouble.

    Honestly, I'm also trying to help Raidho make the best speaker because we will all benefit.
    Mark

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  7. #37
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    Re: A Plea for Michael Borresen

    V3 maybe?

    Sent from my HTC One.
    Doug



  8. #38
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    Re: A Plea for Michael Borresen

    I consider the D3's to be demanding speaker's not flawed.

    That said, the first fix by Michael B. was to fix the popping at high SPL's caused by the rubber surround "bottoming out" due to the fact that he used a high Q rated driver in an open baffle design to achieve unique musicality vis-à-vis some popular sealed port designs.

    In the fix Michael B. implemented a unique enclosure design resulting in the speaker acting like a sealed port (which work well with high q rated drivers) at low volumes and an open baffle at high spl's. This fix worked very well to address the problem it was meant to fix. It did not change the fact that a great part of the speaker's magic comes from the high q characteristics of the elastomer surround used in the driver's which still needs significant control through a very high damping factor and slew rate. This is a clear design intention, NOT a flaw.

    I think Raidho's biggest mistake was when Lars communicated to the market that you don't have to spend a ton of money on amps to make the speakers sound great and gave the example of a nice little integrated. (From a marketing perspective this left the budget available to buy his speaker.) This advice is in fact correct with an important caveat. The speakers are so profoundly musical they can sound great with lower priced electronics, but electronics must be able to dampen the drivers and be rocket fast. I see no inherent reason why an integrated per se would have any advantage over separates.....that's not the issue. Integrated's are a great value and a person looking to buy the Raidhos can save money on one so his budget works for the high priced speakers, BUT it better be the right integrated.

    As an aside, due to there unique attributes the Raidho's can sound phenomenal with lower priced electronics, however all of the widely established principal of electronic design are not obsolesced by their mere existence and they still sound even better with better isolation, less cross talk etc. (i.e., separates).

  9. #39
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    Re: A Plea for Michael Borresen

    Paul - an integrated works best because it does not have a GINORMOUS transformer which creates too much bass.
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Audio Research, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Avantgarde Acoustics, Avid HiFi, Ayre Acoustics, Berkeley Audio Design, Bryston, Chord, ClearAudio Turntables & Accessories, Constellation Audio, Esoteric, FirstWatt, Focal Headphones, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Furutech, Gryphon Audio, Hegel, iFi Audio, ISO Acoustics, JL Audio, KEF Loudspeakers, Kimber Kable, KL Audio Record Cleaning Machines, KR Audio Tube & Amps, Kronos, Lampizator, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MicroMega, MIT Cables, MSB Technologies, Naim Audio, Ortofon, Pass Labs, PS Audio, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables, Roon Labs, Shunyata Research, Siltech, Solid Tech Racks, Sony, SRA, Stein Music, Stillpoints, T+A Electronics, Tannoy Loudspeakers, Transfiguration Cartridges, Trenner & Friedl, Triode Corporation of Japan, VAC, Verity Audio Speakers, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries.

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  10. #40
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    Re: A Plea for Michael Borresen

    Quote Originally Posted by FlexibleAudio View Post
    When I ordered my D3's (v2) I dumped my Pass XA200.5s and bought the Soulution 501's (125 watts and a damping factor of 10,000) based on many members recommendations (including Lars) in hopes of taming the bass. Given that a couple of large pallets hit my dock this week I hope to be finding out how well the 501's work in the not too distant future.

    Fingers crossed.
    Paul, please tell us exactly what hit your dock?
    Le Roy

    Austin, Tx : Soulution 520 preamp, 501 mono blocks, 541 SACD/560 DAC w/ Network Streaming, Raidho D3.1, Lumin U1, Uptone Audio Modded Mac Mini w/ MMK fanless kit & JS-2 LPS, Regen, Ansuz Diamond Loom, Oppo 105D, QNAP TS-451+

    Chicagoland : Soulution 725 preamp, 711 stereo amp, 541 SACD/560 DAC w/ Network Streaming, Raidho D5.1, Naim UnitiServe 2TB, Aurender W-20 Ansuz d-tc Loom (complete), Teac X1000 R2R, QNAP TS-451+

    Foundation:
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