What Pins Your High-End Audio BS Detectors?

**Bobvin** · January 24, 2015, 09:28 PM

Originally Posted by CPP

Bob can I ask where in your documentation does it note 600 hours. I have a LS27 and there is nothing in the manual that notes a break in period. When I got my pre AR said, give a few hours till the tubes warm up and your good to go.

In the boxes the units ship in, there is a small sheet of paper, printed in red, usually taped to the outside of the plastic bags, that says the sound of the unit will improve up through 600 hours. There has been one of these in my VS115 box, REF3, REF110, and now REF 10 and ReF 75 boxes too.

**iosiP** · January 24, 2015, 09:45 PM

To all our customers: thank you for choosing this marketing hype. Our manufacture is using the best Chinese factories to provide you with rice-scented boxes made with utmost care for our bottom line. Please do tighten all screws before listening and make sure noone sneezes in front of the drive units. Our speakers are individually assembled and carefully matched for sonic signature within less than some dBs. Please observe the standard break-in procedure: use your new pair of speakers at low volume for at least the time it takes them to rust. We guarantee they will sound at their best shortly before they break.

**BlueFox** · January 24, 2015, 10:32 PM

Originally Posted by audioarcher

Alcohol temporarily degrades your ability to hear. Ever notice you need to turn it up louder when drunk?

I doubt if that is true in moderation, or even minimal excess.

Originally Posted by Mike

Just ask Bud!

Actually, what I have found is that a dubious idea when sober can become a reasonable idea after a few beers. For example, trying to find out just how loud speakers can play before clipping, distortion, or something else occurs.

I have never noticed a desire to turn up the volume if listening while having some beer or wine. I have noticed different genres respond better at higher volumes. For example, I play rock louder than I play string quartets.

**audioarcher** · January 24, 2015, 11:35 PM

Originally Posted by BlueFox

I doubt if that is true in moderation, or even minimal excess.

Actually, what I have found is that a dubious idea when sober can become a reasonable idea after a few beers. For example, trying to find out just how loud speakers can play before clipping, distortion, or something else occurs.

I have never noticed a desire to turn up the volume if listening while having some beer or wine. I have noticed different genres respond better at higher volumes. For example, I play rock louder than I play string quartets.

Not sure how accurate this article is but I have noticed short term hearing loss from drinking alcohol. Alcohol can cause hearing loss - hear-it.org

**audioarcher** · January 24, 2015, 11:40 PM

Here is another link. The acute effects of alcohol on auditory thresholds

**Garth** · January 24, 2015, 11:44 PM

Myles your avatar has gone from a coffee cup to a D cup should that not read I love silicone

**Myles B. Astor** · January 24, 2015, 11:49 PM

Originally Posted by Garth

Myles your avatar has gone from a coffee cup to a D cup should that not read I love silicone

**BlueFox** · January 24, 2015, 11:53 PM

She really has flat shoulders.

**JDLaudio** · January 25, 2015, 12:00 AM

Originally Posted by Myles B. Astor

I don't think records is the kind of vinyl this girl likes....lol.

**Mike** · January 25, 2015, 12:09 AM

Originally Posted by JDLaudio

I don't think records is the kind of vinyl this girl likes....lol.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**JDLaudio** · January 25, 2015, 01:11 AM

Originally Posted by Mike

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

"Now give me your credit card.....or I'll make Frisbees out of these".

**KeithR** · January 25, 2015, 02:20 AM

1. People who can isolate a DAC in a show room

2. Any new Synergistic Research product

**CPP** · January 25, 2015, 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by Bobvin

In the boxes the units ship in, there is a small sheet of paper, printed in red, usually taped to the outside of the plastic bags, that says the sound of the unit will improve up through 600 hours. There has been one of these in my VS115 box, REF3, REF110, and now REF 10 and ReF 75 boxes too.

Interesting, well I guess I have a few more weeks to go. My hour display for my tubes only notes 439

**Steve** · January 25, 2015, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by Myles B. Astor

I like vinyl...Boobies to my ears. :hug:

**Bobvin** · January 25, 2015, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by CPP

Interesting, well I guess I have a few more weeks to go. My hour display for my tubes only notes 439

From what I have read from others is there are noticable changes at a few milestones along the way, but after 400 hours the changes become smaller. Certainly for my current rig up through the first 100 hours I had some nights where the music just seemed flat and a bit compressed. Much better now at ~150 hours, I look forward to whatever improvements are yet to come.

**Garth** · January 25, 2015, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by Bobvin

From what I have read from others is there are noticable changes at a few milestones along the way, but after 400 hours the changes become smaller. Certainly for my current rig up through the first 100 hours I had some nights where the music just seemed flat and a bit compressed. Much better now at ~150 hours, I look forward to whatever improvements are yet to come.

For me new gear starts out sounding hard then 30 to 40 hours sounds good then gets flat sounding . Then builds into a full sound the 300 to 400 hours seems close. It maybe all in my head but I do not think so. What makes it right I do not know but when it is WOW. I still say the best thing in the system is the record itself . Then just follow the chain down . IMO only

**Garth** · January 25, 2015, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by BlueFox

She really has flat shoulders.

Your right now that I look closer she has shoulders

**Myles B. Astor** · January 25, 2015, 01:00 PM

A

Originally Posted by Garth

For me new gear starts out sounding hard then 30 to 40 hours sounds good then gets flat sounding . Then builds into a full sound the 300 to 400 hours seems close. It maybe all in my head but I do not think so. What makes it right I do not know but when it is WOW. I still say the best thing in the system is the record itself . Then just follow the chain down . IMO only

Don't forget that most new LPs take a few plays to sound their best!

**Bruce** · January 25, 2015, 06:13 PM

Originally Posted by KeithR

2. Any new Synergistic Research product

Agree There Keith--

never heard anything from them worth the effort--all Marketing BS and no substance

Bruce

**Willem** · January 26, 2015, 12:40 AM

This isn't the kind of commentary I have come to expect from a "friend" regarding the craft I and my colleagues have spent the better part of our lives perfecting.

**Alrainbow** · January 26, 2015, 02:36 AM

This is just how done feel it's not meant to hurt anyone.
Butbine must consider how much time and money we spend in this hobby.

**mep** · January 26, 2015, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by Willem

This isn't the kind of commentary I have come to expect from a "friend" regarding the craft I and my colleagues have spent the better part of our lives perfecting.

Willem-What company do you represent?

**Alrainbow** · January 26, 2015, 08:58 AM

My same thought but I did not want to say it. Lol
apparently we all should be deaf and blind mice willing to spend money blindly
and will fully to all
God bless audio

**CPP** · January 26, 2015, 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by Alrainbow

My same thought but I did not want to say it. Lol
apparently we all should be deaf and blind mice willing to spend money blindly
and will fully to all
God bless audio

exactly.

I don't want to be apart of any site that becomes to ;

now isn't this how cable test are done

**Mike** · January 26, 2015, 09:47 AM

Truth in audio is a rare find. The automobile industry doesn't candy coat anything. When company X comes out with a new car, the reviewers go to work to pick it apart and if it's a truly great car, they will say. If it's not, they will say. No product is perfect. None. So when someone says they love 19 things about a product, but one thing wasn't so great, that doesn't make it a bad product. Quite the contrary.

What I'm always doing is looking at the performance to price ratio. My expectations for a $60,000 speaker are far far greater than ones that cost $5,000.

**Alrainbow** · January 26, 2015, 10:02 AM

This may be true but not so in audio. Not that it's for all dealers its not

**mep** · January 26, 2015, 10:16 AM

Anyone surprised by MF's ringing endorsement of Synergistic Research do-dads in the latest Stereophile? I know the SR do-dads are an easy target for criticism, but I do think that MF has a sharp set of ears.

**Mike** · January 26, 2015, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by mep

Anyone surprised by MF's ringing endorsement of Synergistic Research do-dads in the latest Stereophile? I know the SR do-dads are an easy target for criticism, but I do think that MF has a sharp set of ears.

Not really. I'm sure their products make a difference. There are a lot of products on the market that make a difference. I believe everything can make a difference, but as audiophiles, we need to always ask ourselves, "are these things better or are they just different?" I've found that with certain isolation devices. Some, in the right places, can make sonic improvements to the sound. Too many, and you suck the life out of the system. It's a real balance.

**mep** · January 26, 2015, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by Mike

Not really. I'm sure their products make a difference. There are a lot of products on the market that make a difference. I believe everything can make a difference, but as audiophiles, we need to always ask ourselves, "are these things better or are they just different?" I've found that with certain isolation devices. Some, in the right places, can make sonic improvements to the sound. Too many, and you suck the life out of the system. It's a real balance.

As evidenced by this thread, SR products have pegged lots of people's BS detectors. It just makes me curious when people who I have some respect for say very favorable things about them. I did hear the SR RF generator which has more surround effects than any AVR on the planet at RMAF 2014. I'm not buying into that voodoo for a second. I hate 3 second demos first of all and whatever chance On a Higher Note had to show off the gear they brought was dashed on the rocks of the SR demos. Some well-known reviewers are drinking the Kool-Aid though.

**JDLaudio** · January 26, 2015, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by mep

Willem-What company do you represent?

I'm 99.999999% sure it is VAC.

**iosiP** · January 26, 2015, 04:40 PM

My BS meter is set to detect the "explanation level" of whatever thingies are offered:

0. Level zero: when the manufacturer offers explanations on what the device does, the principles underlining the results and how it achieves the goal, with technical info.
Hint: X will give you better highs by avoiding skin effect. This is achieved by using surface oxidation. Since copper oxide has more resistance than copper, the flow of current toward the surface is minimized and results in a more even distribution of current within the section of the cable.

1. Level one: when the manufacturer offers explanations on what the device does, the principles underlining the results and how it achieves the goal.
Hint: X will give you better highs by avoiding skin effect. This is achieved by using surface oxidation.

2. Level two: when the manufacturer offers explanations on what the device does, the principles underlining the results but not on how it achieves the goal (yes I know, it's all "patent pending").
Hint: X will give you better highs by avoiding skin effect. This is achieved by using our special method of manufacturing (patent pending for the last decade).

3. Level three: when the manufacturer offers explanations on what the device does, but not the principles underlining the results and even less on how it achieves the goal.
Hint: X will give you better highs because this is how we made it.

**KeithR** · January 26, 2015, 07:09 PM

Originally Posted by mep

Anyone surprised by MF's ringing endorsement of Synergistic Research do-dads in the latest Stereophile? I know the SR do-dads are an easy target for criticism, but I do think that MF has a sharp set of ears.

Just because its different, doesn't mean its better? I still don't think Ted ever had his room acoustics ART system tested by Stereophile before and after. SR has literally figured out a way to insert a product into every connection and component into your room based on pseudo science like "quantum tunneling."

**mep** · January 26, 2015, 08:36 PM

Originally Posted by KeithR

Just because its different, doesn't mean its better? I still don't think Ted ever had his room acoustics ART system tested by Stereophile before and after. SR has literally figured out a way to insert a product into every connection and component into your room based on pseudo science like "quantum tunneling."

I hear what you are saying. MF thinks his system does sound better with the SR stuff and who am I to argue about what he hears in his room with his system? I personally have no experience with the SR stuff except for the RF generator that I 'heard' at RMAF 2014.

**GaryProtein** · January 26, 2015, 10:32 PM

Originally Posted by wisnon

Coconut audio...

and Synergistic Research and just about everything other people have mentioned.

mauidan · January 26, 2015, 11:21 PM

People who make negative comments about products they've never heard.

**Zero** · January 27, 2015, 11:21 AM

+ 1000 on that.

Shit, I'll even throw myself under a bus by confessing that I've done this before, albiet on the phone with my audio buddies. "Hey, did you see those new umpty squat speakers by Lunch Bucket Audio? Yeah. They feature a nice set of MDF enclosures with Scan Speak drivers stuffed in em'. GEE. I WONDER HOW THEY'LL SOUND."

To be fair, there gets a point to where even the best of us become a tad jaded by this stuff. And because we're all human and prone to being a tad dickish, there will be times when you crap all over something that you've never even heard. The big difference though, is whether or not you do the crapping in public. A considerate asshole will do his business in private. The all-out inconsiderate asshole will have no problems doing it in public.

**Steve** · January 27, 2015, 11:56 AM

"...They feature a nice set of MDF enclosures with Scan Speak drivers stuffed in em'. GEE. I WONDER HOW THEY'LL SOUND."

Generally speaking, they would sound fabulous... A winning combination used by many manufacturers.

**Cody@TARA** · February 4, 2015, 04:22 PM

To the OP:

People who criticize high-end audioequipment without actually hearing it first.

**Myles B. Astor** · February 4, 2015, 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by Cody@TARA

To the OP:

People who criticize high-end audioequipment without actually hearing it first.

+1

Internet audio trolls.

Or ever having heard a properly set-up high-end audio system.

**just dave** · February 4, 2015, 07:40 PM

great thread guys.BTW I love me some Magic Pebbles.

**Purité Audio** · February 5, 2015, 08:01 AM

Anything in a box which cannot ,without breaking ,be opened.
Keith.

**Elberoth** · February 5, 2015, 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by Cody@TARA

To the OP:

People who criticize high-end audioequipment without actually hearing it first.

Do you really need to hear coconut cables to be able to tell thay are BS ?

Some claims made by manufacturers are so absurd, that I see no reason to even waste my time testing them.

**Alpinist** · February 6, 2015, 11:01 PM

"My silver analog cables don't sound any brighter than copper analog cables."

**GaryProtein** · February 8, 2015, 12:03 AM

Originally Posted by Elberoth

Do you really need to hear coconut cables to be able to tell thay are BS ?

Some claims made by manufacturers are so absurd, that I see no reason to even waste my time testing them.

Absolutely!

**BlueFox** · February 8, 2015, 12:09 AM

I always thought Coconut Audio was a satire audio site. If somebody takes the satire seriously, and buys a cable then they make a few dollars, and laugh all the way to the bank.

**MikeCh** · February 8, 2015, 12:47 AM

Originally Posted by Alpinist

"My silver analog cables don't sound any brighter than copper analog cables."

Huh? Please explain. Thanks.

**bzr** · February 8, 2015, 01:58 AM

Originally Posted by MikeCh

Huh? Please explain. Thanks.

Mike, I'm guessing Ken has heard silver cables in a mismatched system. No offence meant Ken & not trying to be condescending but good silver cables aren't "bright" to my finding. They sound that way in a system that has bad synergy.

Also, people that have an opinion on something they've never heard, seriously! Thats like me saying I was never a virgin because I watched so much porn!

**j2020** · February 10, 2015, 10:27 PM

"Mike, I'm guessing Ken has heard silver cables in a mismatched system. No offence meant Ken & not trying to be condescending but good silver cables aren't "bright" to my finding. They sound that way in a system that has bad synergy."
My personal experience with silver Kimber Select cables has been very positive.

"Also, people that have an opinion on something they've never heard, seriously!"
+1

**bayou985** · March 5, 2015, 03:48 PM

Speakers that look like robots, garbage cans, wheels or lamps...

**BlueFox** · March 5, 2015, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by bayou985

Speakers that look like robots, garbage cans, wheels or lamps...

Or aliens.

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