Can Someone Please Explain...

**CDLehner** · January 25, 2016, 04:59 PM

...the appeal of Nagra? I mean, no offense to any owners (and I don't see a Nagra-specific thread here, so maybe I'm OK); but isn't their "claim to fame"...that like, it was built so tough; they used it in the field, during wars and sh*t?

OK, great; but that does that really warrant a $40,000 [correction, $24,000] DAC...to sit on your Listening Room rack? I mean seriously; probably less than any other company, with a recognizable name in audio...do I get the appeal of this stuff.

**Odyssey** · January 25, 2016, 05:23 PM

It's on my short list for a upgrade DAC. I haven't heard it but others have sung its praises.

HiFi+ DAC of the Year for 2016. I think Mike can chime in here as to feedback he has gotten from other actual users.

Swiss precision. One of the designers of the DAC was a father of DSD?

**Odyssey** · January 25, 2016, 05:24 PM

On the other hand, with DAC technology changing so rapidly, should we spend more than 20k on a DAC?

**jdandy** · January 25, 2016, 08:17 PM

Lets see now, $40,000 Nagra HD DAC......

or $40,000 Shelby GT350. Hmm.

Think I'll take the Shelby GT350. .

**mep** · January 25, 2016, 08:33 PM

Originally Posted by Double-D

Lets see now, $40,000 Nagra HD DAC......

or $40,000 Shelby GT350. Hmm.

Think I'll take the Shelby GT350. .

Except you can't buy one for that. Aren't they all selling for 2x MSRP or is that only the special version of the GT350 (the "R" version?).

**Mike** · January 25, 2016, 08:38 PM

As the newest Nagra dealer, I can tell you that it is a very special sounding brand with a cult-like following. Nagra has been around almost as long as McIntosh (1949 vs 1951) and they offer a wide suite of products. Many of their products have become legendary. All their products are Swiss made with precision, small footprint aesthetics and absolutely intoxicating sound.

And just for clarification, the HD DAC is $24,995 and their brand new Classic DAC (which I also heard at CES 2016) is $14,995.

Aside from DAC's, they make wonderful sounding tube and solid state equipment.

So to circle back on the OP, the price points are not unreasonable in the world of top echelon DAC's. Have we forgotten the $90,000 MSB DAC, $100,000 DCS DAC and many others?

Where one sits personally on the DAC/Digital Source scale is dependent on one's budget and appetite for digital expiration.

**jdandy** · January 25, 2016, 08:43 PM

Mike.......I saw the $24,995 price on the Nagra DAC before my post. Just having fun with the OP. No slight against Nagra intended.

**Mike** · January 25, 2016, 08:51 PM

Originally Posted by Double-D

Mike.......I saw the $24,995 price on the Nagra DAC before my post. Just having fun with the OP. No slight against Nagra intended.

None taken. We can't all love every product. I just wonder if the OP has actually heard a Nagra system?

**CDLehner** · January 25, 2016, 09:41 PM

Hey...I wasn't trying to start any trouble; nor was I tugging at the string, of the cost of our gear vs. what else it could buy.

And no, I haven't heard Nagra; of course. Let's not pretend, it's like in even, all the highest of hi-end B&Ms. It's a very niche brand; didn't someone say, cult-like following?

I asked if someone could explain the appeal, as I don't get it. You didn't hear me say, why would someone buy an ARC Ref 6, instead of a car; or a pair of SFs...instead of a house, lol

It was explained...I still don't get it, but it's no biggie. Frankly...to get so defensive; me thinks doth protest too much.

**Mike** · January 25, 2016, 09:52 PM

Originally Posted by CDLehner

Hey...I wasn't trying to start any trouble; nor was I tugging at the string, of the cost of our gear vs. what else it could buy.

And no, I haven't heard Nagra; of course. Let's not pretend, it's like in even, all the highest of hi-end B&Ms. It's a very niche brand; didn't someone say, cult-like following?

I asked if someone could explain the appeal, as I don't get it. You didn't hear me say, why would someone buy an ARC Ref 6, instead of a car; or a pair of SFs...instead of a house, lol

It was explained...I still don't get it, but it's no biggie. Frankly...to get so defensive; me thinks doth protest too much.

Who's defensive? You asked for someone to explain the appeal, didn't you? I thought I shed some light. Maybe some Nagra owners like tunes can chime in as well. Unless the purpose of your post was to slam a brand you've never heard with an incorrect price to boot.

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**CDLehner** · January 25, 2016, 10:10 PM

Originally Posted by Mike

Unless the purpose of your post was to slam a brand you've never heard with an incorrect price to boot.

Not at all. And I apologize about the price; I saw a reference, but it was a DAC/MPS/CDT combo...for $40k.

I've corrected it, and AFAIC...you can just clear this post if you like

**Odyssey** · January 25, 2016, 10:11 PM

High engineering costs + high labor costs + high quality divided by small number of units sold = high (relative) cost per unit.

And as Mike points out, there are many other higher cost choices to choose from.

Each of us has to decide if it is worth the extra SQ in our system.

I would love to hear the Nagra HD DAC. I'll be on the lookout.

I think Nagra has stood the test of time.

I think it's great to have so many wonderful choices!

**Odyssey** · January 25, 2016, 10:14 PM

Congratulations to Mike for picking up Nagra!

**Mike** · January 25, 2016, 10:16 PM

Originally Posted by CDLehner

Not at all. And I apologize about the price; I saw a reference, but it was a DAC/MPS/CDT combo...for $40k.

I've corrected it, and AFAIC...you can just clear this post if you like

No need. You were asking a question. But here's what I've learned - it's important to try to hear the gear before commenting. I'll admit, I was shaking my head at the $90,000 MSB DAC when it was first announced, but like Jim (Still-One), then I heard it and my opinion was that it was exceptionally good. Worth $90,000? Well, it was excellent and that's all I'll say. Was it better than a Lumin, Berkeley, Lampi, etc? Don't know - but I would sure love to do a shootout.

I know we see products and can't even begin to fathom their price, especially from Euro brands. I get it. You're not the first and you won't be the last to shake their heads, and most of the time, I'm standing right there with you.

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**Cucumber_jones** · January 25, 2016, 11:03 PM

This is a silly thread. Could be about countless hifi companies. FWIW I think this brand looks awesome.

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**tunes** · January 25, 2016, 11:13 PM

I'm a big nagra fan and many of the virtues have been pointed out by others already. Nagra has been awarded with a gazillion nods within the pro recording industry for decades. Google Kudelski tape recorder if you're interested in the history of portable recording. Nagra jumped into the high end audio side of things in the late 90s with stellar products like the plp preamp with phono stage and the 845 based vpa amps. They don't churn out replacement models every year or two but more like every 5 years plus. Two years ago, the company released the hd dac and with it, a new strategy to have two lines, an HD line of top drawer gear, and a Classic line borrowing tech from the HD line in a less expensive package. Having owned and used alot of Nagra gear before the HD line was introduced, i am amazed at the over-engineered build quality and superb sound quality. They, like other swiss gear from Soulution, CH Precision, Dartzeel, Goldmund, etc. are pricey but some of the best designed gear available IMO. As an aside, their new NA sales manager, René Laflamme, is also an acomplished recording engineer, and the man behind Fidelio Audio recordings in Montreal.

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**groovy** · January 26, 2016, 03:28 AM

Originally Posted by CDLehner

...the appeal of Nagra? I mean, no offense to any owners (and I don't see a Nagra-specific thread here, so maybe I'm OK); but isn't their "claim to fame"...that like, it was built so tough; they used it in the field, during wars and sh*t?

OK, great; but that does that really warrant a $40,000 [correction, $24,000] DAC...to sit on your Listening Room rack? I mean seriously; probably less than any other company, with a recognizable name in audio...do I get the appeal of this stuff.

It's pretty simple, if you want entrance into audio nirvana, you have to pay the price. The good news is, you can get to the gates for a fraction of the price.

**wisnon** · January 26, 2016, 03:34 AM

Originally Posted by Mike

None taken. We can't all love every product. I just wonder if the OP has actually heard a Nagra system?

I was not really a Nagra lover before till now. Good stuff:
http://parttimeaudiophile.com/2015/1...nce-statement/

**Jerome W** · January 26, 2016, 03:41 AM

My Nagra MSA power amp is a true jewel. I even had two of them. Sold one. Big mistake. Will never EVER sell the second one !

**Randy Myers** · January 27, 2016, 01:58 AM

I would absolutely love to give one a try in my system.... I certainly understand the quality that Switzerland made usually implies (absolutely love my amazing Goldmund amp)... even though I think I have done quite well I know these product are way out of my price range

.... a $1000 DAC seems to do a fantastic job for me; and another $500 one for my headphones... but dam I would love to try one of these

...

**joeinid** · January 28, 2016, 07:35 AM

Hi Jerome,

Can you tell me a little about your Nagra amp? Is it this one, the Classic Amp?

http://www.nagraaudio.com/classic-amp/

When you had two, they functioned as mono blocks? What do you love about the sound?

Thanks!

Originally Posted by Jerome W

My Nagra MSA power amp is a true jewel. I even had two of them. Sold one. Big mistake. Will never EVER sell the second one !

**tunes** · January 28, 2016, 09:13 AM

The MSA amp is a stereo amp that can be run as a standalone or paired with a second unit for mono/bridged operation.

http://www.tonepublications.com/revi...msa-amplifier/

The Classic amp replaced the MSA this year.

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**joeinid** · January 28, 2016, 09:42 AM

Thank you. I am curious what Jerome loves about it. I've never heard Nagra.

Originally Posted by tunes

The MSA amp is a stereo amp that can be run as a standalone or paired with a second unit for mono/bridged operation.

http://www.tonepublications.com/revi...msa-amplifier/

The Classic amp replaced the MSA this year.

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**Jerome W** · January 28, 2016, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by joeinid

Thank you. I am curious what Jerome loves about it. I've never heard Nagra.

Joe,

The MSA is a stunningly musical amplifier.
It is dynamic and juicy, with very rich saturated colors and an incredible truth of timbre. "It sounds just right".
It is a delight on my Harbeth 40.1 and also on my Altec speakers.
When I had 2, I ran them as monoblocks and found the sound less refined, less alive than with a single amp used in stereo. A large part of the magic was lost.
Probably due to the fact that the single stereo amp works with a single pair of transistors, like the old Pass Aleph, mirroring a single ended operation, while used as a monoblock, it is like a push pull amp.

**joeinid** · January 28, 2016, 03:43 PM

Thank you Jerome. I remember now when you received it how happy you were/are with it. I'll have to check it out.

**atmasphere** · January 28, 2016, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by CDLehner

Hey...I wasn't trying to start any trouble; nor was I tugging at the string, of the cost of our gear vs. what else it could buy.

And no, I haven't heard Nagra; of course. Let's not pretend, it's like in even, all the highest of hi-end B&Ms. It's a very niche brand; didn't someone say, cult-like following?

I asked if someone could explain the appeal, as I don't get it. You didn't hear me say, why would someone buy an ARC Ref 6, instead of a car; or a pair of SFs...instead of a house, lol

It was explained...I still don't get it, but it's no biggie. Frankly...to get so defensive; me thinks doth protest too much.

The appeal? Nagra has made some of the finest portable reel to reel machines for decades, used by news organizations worldwide. They are built with a great deal of craftsmenship! The machine in the photo, using 1/8" tape, went on an Apollo mission,

as it says in the picture.

The name is extremely well-known in the professional audio world. If you have any older (60s, 70s, 80s) field recordings, for example on the Nonesuch label, its likely that they were done on a Nagra.

**CDLehner** · January 28, 2016, 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by atmasphere

The appeal? Nagra has made some of the finest portable reel to reel machines for decades, used by news organizations worldwide. They are built with a great deal of craftsmenship! The machine in the photo, using 1/8" tape, went on an Apollo mission,

as it says in the picture.

The name is extremely well-known in the professional audio world. If you have any older (60s, 70s, 80s) field recordings, for example on the Nonesuch label, its likely that they were done on a Nagra.

Yeah...I addressed that:

...but isn't their "claim to fame"...that like, it was built so tough; they used it in the field, during wars and sh*t?

OK, great; but that does that really warrant a $40,000 [correction, $24,000] DAC...to sit on your Listening Room rack?

OK...and outer-space; but again...is that, alone, worth the premium? I'm sorry; it's just my opinion, and I'm allowed to express it...but I think it's ugly. And while I'm sure it sounds great; so does a lot of gear.

So I was just wondering...what makes it so special. If the answer is...it'll last a lifetime, and if I ever need to take it into a war-zone or outer-space, I can; then so be it

**atmasphere** · January 28, 2016, 05:31 PM

^^ That and because they really have made excellent sounding equipment over their entire history and that does not seem to be stopping any time soon. BTW, $40K is about right for top tier digital gear. The digital system we've showed with a lot at shows runs about $72K. For that though, I'll keep my turntable

**Jerome W** · January 28, 2016, 06:28 PM

Originally Posted by CDLehner

Yeah...I addressed that:

...but isn't their "claim to fame"...that like, it was built so tough; they used it in the field, during wars and sh*t?

OK, great; but that does that really warrant a $40,000 [correction, $24,000] DAC...to sit on your Listening Room rack?

OK...and outer-space; but again...is that, alone, worth the premium? I'm sorry; it's just my opinion, and I'm allowed to express it...but I think it's ugly. And while I'm sure it sounds great; so does a lot of gear.

So I was just wondering...what makes it so special. If the answer is...it'll last a lifetime, and if I ever need to take it into a war-zone or outer-space, I can; then so be it

Ugly ?

I find Nagra ultra sexy.

**Odyssey** · January 28, 2016, 07:18 PM

Is Nagra the best kept open secret?

**joeinid** · January 28, 2016, 07:26 PM

My interest is certainly piqued

**puroagave** · January 28, 2016, 07:55 PM

Originally Posted by CDLehner

Yeah...I addressed that:

...but isn't their "claim to fame"...that like, it was built so tough; they used it in the field, during wars and sh*t?

OK, great; but that does that really warrant a $40,000 [correction, $24,000] DAC...to sit on your Listening Room rack?

OK...and outer-space; but again...is that, alone, worth the premium? I'm sorry; it's just my opinion, and I'm allowed to express it...but I think it's ugly. And while I'm sure it sounds great; so does a lot of gear.

So I was just wondering...what makes it so special. If the answer is...it'll last a lifetime, and if I ever need to take it into a war-zone or outer-space, I can; then so be it

Talk about beating a dead horse, I think you killed the horse before it had a chance to be beaten. You don't like Nagra's looks or its price, so why torment those that appreciate the brand? Sheesh.

**mep** · January 28, 2016, 08:39 PM

Originally Posted by puroagave

Talk about beating a dead horse, I think you killed the horse before it had a chance to be beaten. You don't like Nagra's looks or its price, so why torment those that appreciate the brand? Sheesh.

+1

**Cucumber_jones** · January 28, 2016, 09:12 PM

This thread started off stupid and has gotten more stupid each time time OP comments. What if we all thought his new DAC is ugly. Should we post about it?

**jdandy** · January 28, 2016, 10:00 PM

Originally Posted by Jerome W

Ugly ?

I find Nagra ultra sexy.

Jerome.......Oh yes!

**BlueFox** · January 28, 2016, 10:23 PM

Originally Posted by Odyssey

On the other hand, with DAC technology changing so rapidly, should we spend more than 20k on a DAC?

LOL. Good question. Now cables are another matter.

**hoosiertom** · January 28, 2016, 10:37 PM

Originally Posted by Double-D

Lets see now, $40,000 Nagra HD DAC......

or $40,000 Shelby GT350. Hmm.

Think I'll take the Shelby GT350. .

Because it's a new release Gt 350s are being scalped by some dealers for double or more than sticker price :-( Sorry, I'd didn't see all the earlier comments before i posted ...Sorry for the duplication :-(

**Tbadder** · January 28, 2016, 11:32 PM

Except for the the pyramid amps I always thought Nagra gear looked great. Rugged, no nonsense aesthetics. Unfortunately I'll never be able to afford. 

oh...and as cool as the GT 350 is it can't hold a candle to the GT 40. Now that is a blood on wheels screamer.

**Jerome W** · January 29, 2016, 12:37 AM

Originally Posted by joeinid

Thank you Jerome. I remember now when you received it how happy you were/are with it. I'll have to check it out.

Joe,
The only "bad point" with the Nagra MSA is the rather narrow stereo image. Very focused and stable but not very wide.

**Steve** · January 29, 2016, 05:23 AM

Great admiration for the brand. Oozes precision and and quality. Always drool over Nagra but I'm a cheese for anything Swiss. Of course anyone who owns a Nagra R2R is a lucky boy!

**Bobolaclune** · January 29, 2016, 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by puroagave

Talk about beating a dead horse, I think you killed the horse before it had a chance to be beaten. You don't like Nagra's looks or its price, so why torment those that appreciate the brand? Sheesh.

+2

**Mike** · January 29, 2016, 09:33 AM

The whole reason I picked up Nagra is because it's a brand I love. Sonically, aesthetically, and their history. I realize not every brand is going to please everyone for whatever reasons, but Nagra has stood the test of time and has a long trail of very happy customers.

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**cmalak** · January 29, 2016, 11:47 AM

Mike...not sure you need to justify to anyone why you pick up any brand, let alone Nagra.

I love my little BPS phono from Nagra. At its moderate price, it plays way above its weight.

When you open that little sucker up, it oozes quality and clean engineering design. In any case, it's all good. With the dollar getting stronger relative to the Euro and the Swiss Franc, some of these high end marquee names could become a bit more affordable to the US audiophile consumer.

Best of luck with the Nagra line. You have chosen well as with your other brands

**Randy Myers** · January 29, 2016, 12:00 PM

Agree completely.... I would love to get some Nagra equipment... Switzerland made equipment is some of the very top notch!

**CDLehner** · January 29, 2016, 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by Cucumber_jones

This thread started off stupid and has gotten more stupid each time time OP comments. What if we all thought his new DAC is ugly. Should we post about it?

Uh...I'd take no offense, whatsoever; because I know...not everything, was for everyone.

Besides...what it looks like, doesn't matter much. I thought maybe others felt the same; and I wanted to know the appeal.

But when guys can't explain themselves, without getting emotional...or resorting to calling someone stupid; seriously...it makes it obvious, I've touched a nerve (and I asked Mike, to just lose this thread...long ago

)

**joeinid** · January 29, 2016, 02:19 PM

So, how's the LaVoce?

**CDLehner** · January 29, 2016, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by joeinid

So, how's the LaVoce?

AQUA La Voce S2 DAC...In Da House!

But in a word; pretty great!

**joeinid** · January 29, 2016, 02:56 PM

Awesome, I forgot about that thread. Thank you for the link.

**Cucumber_jones** · January 29, 2016, 07:51 PM

Originally Posted by CDLehner

Uh...I'd take no offense, whatsoever; because I know...not everything, was for everyone.

Besides...what it looks like, doesn't matter much. I thought maybe others felt the same; and I wanted to know the appeal.

But when guys can't explain themselves, without getting emotional...or resorting to calling someone stupid; seriously...it makes it obvious, I've touched a nerve (and I asked Mike, to just lose this thread...long ago

)

Nagra is one of the best looking brands out there. I can on think of a couple that compare on looks.

From every thing I have read the sonics are exceptional.

Emotional, maybe because your post seemed to only stir shit.

**CDLehner** · January 29, 2016, 08:33 PM

Originally Posted by Cucumber_jones

Nagra is one of the best looking brands out there. I can on think of a couple that compare on looks.

From every thing I have read the sonics are exceptional.

Emotional, maybe because your post seemed to only stir shit.

Well...I'd say, it takes two to make a conflict. If everyone has ignored it, or said "it's great...you should try it".

And as for looks..."beauty in the eye of the beholder, and all that". But people didn't; they said things like

Originally Posted by Cucumber_jones

This thread started off stupid and has gotten more stupid each time time OP comments.

So go ahead; take your parting shots...and then please. Can we let this go?

Thread: Can Someone Please Explain...