Thread: MQA Discussion

"Implemented by software" is exactly what Auralic, one of the original members of the MQA group, was prepared to demonstrate at CES 2016 before the plug was pulled by the "leader" of MQA. They have since implemented the same thing thing they were going to demonstrate at CES as a part of Lightning DS several months ago. It works just as it would have back then.

Originally Posted by Unworthy

If that's true, I agree that's pretty shady practice. I know that a lot of people are skeptical due to MQA's methods and motives, but isn't it how it sounds that counts?

I'm not even sure the source site is that notable. Does anyone have any real experience with the site hosting the article or it's standing in the community? I'm not familiar with them in the USA, however they appear to be a UK site and publication. So perhaps they're "right down the street" from B.S?? :0

Originally Posted by rbbert

Although SACD's keep being released, around 15-20 new classical SACD's every month, and Audio Fidelity and MFSL for jazz/pop/rock several more... That isn't a lot, but they are pretty much all "keepers", unlike most of the stuff that comes out on CD every week.

Rob, what would be your preferred digital setup if you wanted to just stream? software, renderer, outputs, etc.

Originally Posted by KeithR

Rob, what would be your preferred digital setup if you wanted to just stream? software, renderer, outputs, etc.

Depends what you want to spend, of course. For a high but not outrageous amount of money, either the Ayre QX-5 or the PS Audio Direct Stream plus Bridge at the DAC end. I lean toward Roon for software but haven't tried it yet; my biggest problem with any software is the amount of music I have that is "unofficial" and will need to be manually tagged. There are quite a few decent choices for Roon renderers, starting at about $1200 for something from Small Green Computer (probably something by Sonore) up through the Aurenders, etc, again depending on your budget. I like the concepts behind an I2S or Ethernet connection, but haven't used either enough to have a good grap of pros and cons.

I think Alex Siufy can probably answer your general questions better than I.

I think with either of those DAC's, having Roon run on an NAS would obviate the need for any other hardware or software, but I'm not sure of that

Thanks - I am indeed leaning to a Roon-based streaming system after asiufy let me demo it. I currently have a MSB Analog dac, but their renderer isn't Roon compliant and an upgraded version isn't imminent If I am reading things correctly, I'd need a microrendu type device.

Roon is fantastic. I will not consider any music server, DAC, renderer, or whatever if Roon is not supported. The Roon lifetime subscription is the best money spent in this crazy hobby to date.

Lumin is a Roon endpoint.


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Nice!

I find it very interesting to read that those who most strongly oppose MQA have actually never heard it IN THEIR SYSTEMS. I remember when MQA was launched at CES, many manufacturers opposed it and some of those now are quite accepting of MQA and implementing it into their hardware. There still remains quite a few who have dug their heels in, but I feel they will eventually soften their stance. We saw this before with DSD. Those that refused to implement DSD, even DoP, suffered sales losses. I predict we will see this play out again with MQA, but it has the potential to have even a greater impact.

I had my friend Jerry over to the store tonight. 3 hours later we were still listening. Jerry, who has a great ear, was blown away by hearing full blown, fully unfolded MQA via the Berkeley Alpha Reference DAC 2 MQA and Lumin U1.

Much like vinyl, even old, less than stellar recordings are actually quite listenable.

Unlike DSD, MQA is coming out with new material every single day and does not distinguish between new albums, old albums, jazz albums, rock albums, classical albums or anything!

I personally do not experience any digital fatigue when I'm listening to an MQA album. The same cannot be said for redbook or even high res PCM. The filters applied to the music fixing time and spatial cues, significantly enhances digital.

Originally Posted by mauidan

I agree.

Do have any experience playing MQA files via an Audioquest Dragonfly Red?

PS- Roon let me try it without entering a credit card. I wasn't impressed.

Unfortunately not. I have listened to MQA extensively on the Aurender A10, Lumin A1 and Berkeley REF 2 MQA and some time on the PS Audio DS via its Network Bridge II.

The Berk REF 2 MQA is on another level. As good as any DAC I've ever heard at any price.


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Originally Posted by mauidan

Do have any experience playing MQA files via an Audioquest Dragonfly Red?

PS- Roon let me try it without entering a credit card. I wasn't impressed.

If you meant you used Roon to play MQA to Dragonfly Red, you were not listening to decoded MQA. Dragonfly is a MQA Renderer, and it requires something to perform the MQA Core decoding first. You have to use either Tidal desktop app or Audirvana. Roon does not currently support MQA Core decoding yet.

Case C:
https://www.computeraudiophile.com/c...for-civilians/

Originally Posted by mauidan

I didn't try MQA files with Roon, just Redbook and HiRez files.

I ordered a Dragonfly Red and will try MQA with the Tidal desktop app.

Dan, I'm glad you are giving it a real try unlike all the naysayers who are just speculating based on yada yada...

I intend to do the same with my MSB at some point.

Although I've not verified this, there are other forum reports of Universal MQA showing up in Tidal.

I was fortunate to have a private audition of new Alexia 2's being driven by Dan A'gustino Momentum mono's and a Rossini DAC with the new MQA update installed. We played a lot of redbook and hi-res tracks and compared them to MQA tracks. The difference was very noticeable - hearing much more separation and tuneful bass etc. During the audition we started to notice the haze in the rebook and came to expect some of what the MQA track would do. We went back and forth and also played 24/192 versions and for a laugh an MP3 rip. It's made me start thinking about getting an MQA DAC. Possibly a Rossini or fingers crossed Bricasti add MQA to the M1.
On another note, the bass out of the Alexia 2's was incredible - a very impressive speaker.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/melissa...g#46b57f551365


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Originally Posted by mauidan

If he was using an Ipad, it wasn't MQA.

From the Tidal website:

** Currently TIDAL Masters audio is supported via our desktop application only.

LOL. I was using the iPad to control the Lumin U1 which does full MQA unfold. That was passed to the Berk REF2 MQA which does the rendering.



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LOL. I was using the iPad to control the Lumin U1 which does full MQA unfold. That was passed to the Berk REF2 MQA which does the MQA rendering.




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Originally Posted by JDLaudio

Maybe it was a Windows touchpad ?? All I know is he was using it to select the music.....and it was displaying Tidal, and which selections were Masters ??

See above.


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Originally Posted by mauidan

If he was using an Ipad, it wasn't MQA.

From the Tidal website:

** Currently TIDAL Masters audio is supported via our desktop application only.

This statement does not imply that there does not exist hardware to support Tidal Masters MQA. This statement is meant to say that in the context of official Tidal apps, the official smartphone apps do not support Masters MQA decoding - only the desktop ones do.

Lumin S1 / A1 / T1 / D1 supports full Tidal Masters MQA decoding. Decoding is done in the Lumin players controlled by iPad.

In Mike's setup he's using Lumin U1 beta firmware with MQA Core decoding sending to Berkeley Reference 2 MQA Renderer. Again this is controlled by iPad.

Since Lumin supports Tidal natively, the official Tidal iOS app is not used, and therefore Lumin is not restricted by the restrictions of the official Tidal smartphone apps. Lumin app is used.

Originally Posted by wklie

Although I've not verified this, there are other forum reports of Universal MQA showing up in Tidal.

All the Tidal and MQA naysayers can say what they want, with Universal Music Group unloading their catalog under all of these Universal groups labels http://www.universalmusic.com/labels/, there is going to be a lot of music to listen to via Tidal, MQA or otherwise.

Originally Posted by CPP

All the Tidal and MQA naysayers can say what they want, with Universal Music Group unloading their catalog under all of these Universal groups labels http://www.universalmusic.com/labels/, there is going to be a lot of music to listen to via Tidal, MQA or otherwise.

absolutely. Those who bark the loudest have had almost zero experience or no experience listening to it. I've been talking MQA for over 2 years since I first heard it at CES and continued to hear it show after show (see my MQA videos on YouTube). It impressed me then and it's even more impressive now in my own system.


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I have been reading a lot through these threads and discussions on MQA. Some sound like hocus pocus, some sound very intriguing. If someone does not do Tidal and does not stream, at all, but instead prefers to purchase music for their private collections, where does MQA stand? Almost all of these discussions seem to revolve around tidal and streaming, which very much appear to make sense. However, for local downloaded files?

My point is this, if I have a well recorded album which the master is directly converted to DSD64, DSD128, DSD256 versus direct converted to MQA... this is the comparisons I am interested in. I have read several articles over the past year or so in which this type of comparison was done and the DSD won out... maybe this is no longer the case.

Another huge concern for the average user is the associated costs. When you are talking about products like the Berkeley Reference and MSB and the like price is usually not a road block. For the average user price is a huge consideration. The average user cannot replace their DAC, their library of music, etc., just to compare MQA.

If MQA was a simple add on, that could be added to an existing system it might have a better chance of actually gaining legs in the market place. Having to replace your DAC is definitely going to be an issue. The low price DAC's that have came out are very limiting, to say the least. The Explorer 2 is pretty much terrible for any other type file from what I have heard. The Mytec Brooklyn is using low end ESS 9018 portable DAC chip (the same chip that is in my Pono). To me that is limiting the capability.

For us that cannot afford the high high end, how are we to ever to do true comparisons? Hopefully my post is clear enough to get my point across... ...

Originally Posted by Randy Myers

I have been reading a lot through these threads and discussions on MQA. Some sound like hocus pocus, some sound very intriguing. If someone does not do Tidal and does not stream, at all, but instead prefers to purchase music for their private collections, where does MQA stand? Almost all of these discussions seem to revolve around tidal and streaming, which very much appear to make sense. However, for local downloaded files?

My point is this, if I have a well recorded album which the master is directly converted to DSD64, DSD128, DSD256 versus direct converted to MQA... this is the comparisons I am interested in. I have read several articles over the past year or so in which this type of comparison was done and the DSD won out... maybe this is no longer the case.

Another huge concern for the average user is the associated costs. When you are talking about products like the Berkeley Reference and MSB and the like price is usually not a road block. For the average user price is a huge consideration. The average user cannot replace their DAC, their library of music, etc., just to compare MQA.

If MQA was a simple add on, that could be added to an existing system it might have a better chance of actually gaining legs in the market place. Having to replace your DAC is definitely going to be an issue. The low price DAC's that have came out are very limiting, to say the least. The Explorer 2 is pretty much terrible for any other type file from what I have heard. The Mytec Brooklyn is using low end ESS 9018 portable DAC chip (the same chip that is in my Pono). To me that is limiting the capability.

For us that cannot afford the high high end, how are we to ever to do true comparisons? Hopefully my post is clear enough to get my point across... ...

Randy, sometimes its not all about the chip used. I don't put much whoopie do on a chip. The Lumin A1 and D1 which uses a older Wolfson WM8741 dac chip handles MQA and DSD with ease and it sounds really good and its a streamer under $2,000 (D1) , plus it upsamples PCM to DSD 64. Its all about the sum of the parts in the DAC (software and firmware, components) that makes the music sound good to the listener. My OPPO 205 and my 105 both use a ESS DAC the 205 is the latest and greatest but it sounds a little bright to my ears. And you don't have to buy a $15000 dac to enjoy MQA or even PCM or DSD. A lot of nice dacs out there depending on what you want to spend. Forget high end prices, just get a Lumin D1 and enjoy streaming via Tidal using the Lumin app or even using ROON. Heck I haven;t streamed from my NAS in a month or two since Tidal came along. NO Computer NO problem. .And ya know me, you can listen to good audio without spending a huge sum of money.

Some HI-res sites are just starting to add MQA to their downloads. 2L and HighRes Audio (https://www.highresaudio.com/en/search/?title=MQA) But of course the downloads don't support all the genres some of us like and who knows if they will ever support what we all like.

Originally Posted by Randy Myers

I have been reading a lot through these threads and discussions on MQA. Some sound like hocus pocus, some sound very intriguing. If someone does not do Tidal and does not stream, at all, but instead prefers to purchase music for their private collections, where does MQA stand? Almost all of these discussions seem to revolve around tidal and streaming, which very much appear to make sense. However, for local downloaded files?

My point is this, if I have a well recorded album which the master is directly converted to DSD64, DSD128, DSD256 versus direct converted to MQA... this is the comparisons I am interested in. I have read several articles over the past year or so in which this type of comparison was done and the DSD won out... maybe this is no longer the case.

Another huge concern for the average user is the associated costs. When you are talking about products like the Berkeley Reference and MSB and the like price is usually not a road block. For the average user price is a huge consideration. The average user cannot replace their DAC, their library of music, etc., just to compare MQA.

If MQA was a simple add on, that could be added to an existing system it might have a better chance of actually gaining legs in the market place. Having to replace your DAC is definitely going to be an issue. The low price DAC's that have came out are very limiting, to say the least. The Explorer 2 is pretty much terrible for any other type file from what I have heard. The Mytec Brooklyn is using low end ESS 9018 portable DAC chip (the same chip that is in my Pono). To me that is limiting the capability.

For us that cannot afford the high high end, how are we to ever to do true comparisons? Hopefully my post is clear enough to get my point across... ...

Randy - your skepticism is shared by more than a few. But I assure you, if done properly, full blown MQA is not hocus pocus. If someone doesn't do Tidal, then honestly, don't give MQA a second thought. The number of MQA titles for sale are few and far between. The marriage between Tidal and MQA is a good one. Pay your $20/month and you've got access to millions of albums and thousands of MQA albums.

According to the folks at MQA, their objective is to go back to the best master available. This might be tape (if the tapes are still good) or it might be digital (if the tapes are bad or if the album was recorded digitally). They may even be going back to DAT tapes! They then take the best available master and apply the apodizing filters to apply fix pre-ringing, time domain issues, etc. The end result is a file (or files) which have proper space and time results reducing or eliminating "digital fatigue".

This is not to say that DSD albums are not wonderful and ditto for some PCM. What MQA is doing is trying to fix spatial cues which have gone awry within the A2D process.

MQA could never be a simple add on to an existing DAC due to its complexity for unfolding and decoding and rendering. We are seeing the unfold, decode and rendering being done in standalone units today, but if you think you can just marry unfolding with a non-MQA rendering DAC, it won't work.

The Lumin D1 would be a good, one box, cost effective way to get into full blown MQA (in a single box).

Thanks for input guys. I may eventually give it a try, but being that I do not stream it is rather hard to justify. Especially with how amazing the system is sounding with the new Wyred DAC...

Having thousands of albums available via Tidal does not really intrigue me at this point (who knows down the road). I already have a hard enough time picking out what I want to listen to now with the 571 albums I current own. ...

The list of MQA naysayers must be getting shorter...

This is big news and will bring MQA to many more people.

For me, I have a hard time listening to non-MQA digital anymore. I find when I listen to MQA albums, hours fly by. ZERO digital fatigue. Love it.

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/arti...rlin-ifa-show/

Originally Posted by Mike

The list of MQA naysayers must be getting shorter...

This is big news and will bring MQA to many more people.

For me, I have a hard time listening to non-MQA digital anymore. I find when I listen to MQA albums, hours fly by. ZERO digital fatigue. Love it.

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/arti...rlin-ifa-show/

I wonder what this statement regarding Amarra Luxe means. It sounds like the SW package would deliver the full shebang, but isn't an MQA DAC needed for that?


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Originally Posted by Kuoppis

I wonder what this statement regarding Amarra Luxe means. It sounds like the SW package would deliver the full shebang, but isn't an MQA DAC needed for that?


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Great question. Hopefully more information will come out soon.

Did any of you guys check out pages 22-24 of Stereophile September (this month)? Mr. Analog, Michael Fremer absolutely NAILS the description of MQA. Nails it. It's what I posted about back in February when I posted my thoughts on listening to full blown MQA.

Check it out if you can.

Times are a changing. Its going to get nuts when Sony starts unloading is music for MQA conversion and Universal dumps its total label groups into Tidal. Now the ball is in Tidals court to make this music better accessible and searchable compared to what it is today. That is the big fallout I see, Tidal and its mix-master music collection is poorly managed and configured.

The smartphone MQA , more http://pocketnow.com/2017/08/27/lg-v...ess-technology
FYI ; Onkyo launched an MQA-toting ‘Granbeat’ smartphone in Japan,https://www.whathifi.com/news/granbe...dio-smartphone

More than software configuration their biggest and most expensive problem to solve will be bandwidth. Problems started popping up in various parts of the country months ago. Especially during the high use evening hours. They have been unable or unwilling to provide a solution to anyone who has opened a support ticket with them. And yes I realize that some of you, in big population areas, claim to have no problems. That seems to be a given for the major media markets but not true overall.

Originally Posted by Kuoppis

I wonder what this statement regarding Amarra Luxe means.

Without a MQA DAC, a software player like Tidal desktop app, Audirvana and Amarra will be able to perform MQA Core decoding to 96 or 88.2kHz.

IFA 2017: MQA EXPANDS GLOBAL REACH ON SMARTPHONE, PORTABLE DEVICES & MUSIC SERVICES

London/ Berlin, 31 August 2017 – Music technology company, MQA, announces a breadth of partnership news at the IFA consumer electronics show in Berlin. Developed for convenient delivery and unmatched audio quality, MQA technology will now be embedded in LG’s new V30 smartphone, the first globally available MQA-enabled handset. MQA music playback will also be available on the two latest portable devices from Sony’s iconic Walkman brand, the WM-ZX300 and WM-A40 models. Both portable players are capable of playing back downloaded MQA music.

Said MQA CEO, Mike Jbara, of the latest news, “Our announcements at IFA illustrate the global presence and diverse footprint of MQA. We’re inspired by the energy and enthusiasm of our partners to keep pushing the opportunities to access master quality audio.”

New MQA Streaming Partners
Korean-based hi-res streaming service, Groovers, has confirmed it is working on MQA mobile and desktop implementation for its platform, due to launch by the end of 2017. This follows recent news from b2b digital music solutions provider, 7digital, that it will be powering a forthcoming hi-res streaming service, HDmusicStream, using MQA technology to deliver studio quality audio.
Current live music download partner, nugs.net, offers thousands of on-demand concerts from artists including Metallica, Bruce Springsteen and Dead & Company. This autumn, the nugs.net HiFi tier will offer MQA streaming on iOS and desktop players.

MQA Music Availability Grows
Universal Music Group, the world-leader in music-based entertainment, is working closely with MQA to encode its vast library of recordings in MQA's technology.
Further reinforcing MQA’s mobile footprint expansion, Pioneer and Onkyo will be showcasing TIDAL Masters mobile streaming on their latest Digital Audio Players, the XDP-30R and DP-S1 models, at the IFA trade fair.
Sonic Studio’s Amarra Luxe 4.1 media player, enabling all the benefits of the MQA experience for local playback and streaming of high resolution music, is scheduled for release in September 2017.
On the download front, Japan-based music store, e-onkyo music, has announced the expansion of their MQA music offering, with the addition of Warner Music Group’s hi-res catalogue in MQA, which will be available for the first time in the region in the coming weeks.
Meanwhile, Onkyo Music store, which serves Germany, UK and the US, will also be offering MQA music, as it rolls out a redesigned store front throughout September. Existing download stores, including HIGHRESAUDIO, continue to add more MQA music as it becomes available.

Hi-Res Keynote Features MQA
MQA’s CEO, Mike Jbara, will take part in a keynote discussion at IFA, organised by the Digital Entertainment Group (DEG) and hosted by Sony Electronics, on Friday 1 September at 14:00 [Hall 20 101]. “The Future of Hi-Res Audio” panel will also feature Morvan Boury (VP, Global Business Development, Sony Music Entertainment), Michael Drexler (VP, Digital Strategy at Warner Music), and Bill Gagnon (UMG’s SVP Business Development) as fellow panelists.

MQA will be supporting partner demonstrations at this year’s IFA, including new MQA hardware partner, iFi Audio, who will be showing theirprototype micro iDSD Black Label DAC featuring MQA integration.

-Ends-

MQA Press Contactslisa@mqa.co.uk | sarah@mqa.co.uk

Press Site for MQAwww.mqa.co.uk/press

About MQA
Using pioneering scientific research into how people hear, the MQA team has created a technology that captures the sound of the original studio performance. The master MQA file is fully authenticated and is small enough to stream, while also being backward compatible, so you can play MQA music on any device. MQA’s award-winning technology is licensed by labels, music services and hardware manufacturers worldwide and is certified by the RIAA. MQA is a UK-based private company.
For more information visit www.mqa.co.uk