Thread: Power Cords

Do you have a Raidho dealer that you could visit? If so ask if they have Ansuz. I had ordered 2 of the new Ansuz power cords. I'm picking them up today. One Ceramic V2 and one Aluminum V2. The A2 blew away my original Ceramic and the C2 was even better than the A2. I'm also going to borrow a Diamond V2 to compare. Not sure what your budget is but I think the retail price is in USD for 2M

Aluminum V2 3150
Ceramic V2 5850
Diamond V2 15900
D-TC 20000 <-- hands down the best

Shunyata is typically synonomous with power cords and products.

I've played with TWL which I feel is very good, came a little too close to my Clarus for less money.

I also have an older MIT Z power cord that did amazing things for my Linn Class V amp.

Originally Posted by Speedskater

While Shunyata makes power cords and products, synonymous is a very poor word choice.

well........than give us a better one !

Originally Posted by Speedskater

While Shunyata makes power cords and products, synonymous is a very poor word choice.

Actually, it is a very good word. Shunyata understands power as few others companies do. Their power products, cords and conditioners, are excellent.

Actually, Shunyata lives in an alternate reality engineering universe. Things just don't work that way.

* * * * * * * * * * *
After further thought, I want to retract the above statement.

It's more like they take engineering knowaladge at use it way out of context.

Originally Posted by Speedskater

Actually, Shunyata lives in an alternate reality engineering universe. Things just don't work that way.

I would be curious to hear what you think and why.

I love their products and just bought 6 Sigma Power cables for myself.


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Originally Posted by Speedskater

Belden. it's one of many.

Ram makes some nice finished Belden cords.
https://www.ramelectronics.net/ac-power-cables.aspx

But they are a little expensive for many situations.

speed, you didn't like the word 'synonymous' so you replaced it with 'Belden' ??

Originally Posted by BlueFox

Actually, it is a very good word. Shunyata understands power as few others companies do. Their power products, cords and conditioners, are excellent.

+1

Originally Posted by Speedskater

Belden makes so many different kinds of good cable, they are not a synonym for power cords. In fact power cords would be way down the list. At the top would be Cat cables.(IMHO)

FWIW - I had the new Belden audiophile cables in the store called Iconoclast. They were returned. Piss poor build quality. Sonics not even approaching mediocre competitors. On the same level as StraightWire, for 20 x the price.


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If you had flash cards with brand names on them, when you showed Shunyata, I'd be willing to bet most anyone who recognized the name would say power cord, or, one of their other power produccts. Synonomous, may not have been the best, like Kleenex is to tissue, nonetheless, power is what Shunyata is recognized for.

I have to agree on the Econoclast, I think Belden was ready to ride on a bandwagon found there was more to it. Maybe they thought the square shape would persuade. My friend brought in a set of the speaker cables right around the time they launched. He brought them over for me to try, I thought perhaps good for the top end if biwiring, I wasn't getting much bass response to speak of, the overall sound just struck me as odd. So much so I thought there must have been some kind of mismatch with them and my system electronically somehow.

I think of Belden as a bulk supplier, they never enter my mind as someone to actually buy any type of pre-made audio product from. I know Bluejeans proudly shows their cables are Belden, good stuff up to about the point where highe quality cables have their entry products. Maybe even better than some entry, they do top out about there though..

BJC's Canare based products are far superior sound wise to the Belden based products.

Mike, surprised to hear that about the Beldens - I have not heard them, and my own interconnect experience tops out at mid-level Shunyatas and AQ Colorados.. but there are some folks in the PS Audio forum that have praised the iconoclasts. You'd think they (I mean Belden, not people in the PS Audio fora ) Would know something about how to design a high-end cable...maybe I'll get to hear them someday, though I am not planning to go out of my way!

Well I am also now a believer in Power Cords, even Entry Level.

I just wanted to dip my toes in the big abyss and ordered 3 low cost cords. Two arrived Friday and the 3rd is back ordered til this week, hopefully.

The two cords I got, were placed on my Pre Amp and CDP. I noticed an immediate change to the sound. My wife who was in the kitchen asked if I was playing a different version of something we are very familiar with.

The Bass of Les Claypool and Primus along with Morphine and Sandman was so much more distinct and tonally correct. Vocals were clearer and a little forward. Less overall noise and grunge in between all the instruments and notes. It's really hard to describe it all, but you guys know exactly what I am trying to say.

The 2 cords are Pangea AC14 SE at $50 a pop. The 3rd cord for my Amp will be a PS Audio PerfectWave AC 3. I decided not to go with the Pangea AC9 because of size and stiffness for the Amp. I may get one later for my APC H15. If I end up getting another bump in good sound from the Amp. I will be satisfied with the money spent and know they are definitely effective.

For those who claim they can't do anything different than a stock cord, besides have better shielding, well then the stock cords are not adequate as the same people claim. The change was too noticeable for it to be just my imagination.

Aside from moving to the Magico S5 a few years ago, power cords, and conditioners, have made the biggest improvements to my system. Not a subtle improvement, but a big sit up and think WTF improvement.

tried loads of power cords in my time . had some valhalla on my belles mb100 , made them sound horrible . went back to good old fashioned copper power cables with better effect .

i read many reviews and some say this works better on that cd player and the same cable works badly on this amp , all gets very confusing

now i make my own from good quality shielded mains cable 4mm with very good furutech connectors and it all sounds pretty good

one power cord that i do love is the isotek syncro which is a dc blocker and had 3 of those with good effect

but i do think you can get ripped off by cable manufacturers

Originally Posted by FDPDK

Well i think i will also chime in here , have tried power cords before ( 15 years ago ) and couldn't really detect any differences . But as i just found out i had a local dealer who has NordOst , i thought i would just give it a try if he would lend me some power cords.
Ended up getting Nordost QB 8 , a 2 Mtr. NordOst Frey2 , a 4 Mtr. NordOst Frey 2 and 1. Qv2 and 1 Qk 2
I brought them home and connected the cord to wall and the other one to my Accuphase E-470 after i did some listening at my normal setup....switced around and sat down to listen for some changes in the smaller area..... I can only say WOUUUU... it was something that really did change things , very easy to hear. Bigger - deeper - wider soundstage. Bass so much better defined and the problems i thought i had with my small room and bass was almost gone. How different singers use their voice so much more easy to detect , as well as differences in recordings of the different songs on an CD ( streamed from Tidal HiFi ).
Only thing where i would say i am not too sure about a difference is when using the Qv2 and Qk2 , the power cords make the biggest difference.
Ohh what do i have, the power strip i normally use is a cheapo one, then a Gigawatt LC1-MK3 to my Accuphase E-470 and the Cardas Golden Reference for my Lumin T1.
Thinking about how the Ansuz might compare against NordOst and what the differences would be. Not the most easy thing to test as the dealer is in the other end of my small country. But he and i might work something out.

I remember when I upgraded my Nordost Frey to the Ansuz original C speaker cables my first thought was I don't hear any differences. Tried flipping back and forth for a couple of days thinking I spent a boatload and don't hear a difference. Could the Nordost be that good? Tonality there was no difference. Then I tried something very different. One of each cable. Now I could hear something. The background was a bit blacker with the Ansuz side. The sound was more open and slightly deeper soundstage. So I reveresed the cables and it moved to the other side. After hearing that I was able to swap the cables in pairs and hear the difference. Even though it wasn't earth shattering it was enough for me to keep the Ansuz.

Originally Posted by FDPDK

Well i have now come the conclusion that i will stick with NordOst , did not have a listen to Ansuz as i was not easy to work out something with the dealer.

Now i started out with a QB4 and a used Heimdall 2 , 2 meter power cord... i now have Sort Kones on try out currently using them under my Accuphase E-470
with 1 AC , 1 BC, 1 TC but will see if i can get 2 or 3 BC on loan so that i can try 3 or 4 B/C under my Accuphase . because thats the recommendation from NordOst , am also going back to the store to see if i can borrow the 1 or 2 Frey 2 Power Cords again...as the Heimdall 2 is really good but in my memory there is just that extra thing missing..that made me listen to music for 2 weeks in a row without the urge to turn on the TV as i was just food tapping my way through my Tidal Hi-Fi collection.
And if my memory and if i get the loan of Frey 2 again to prove or not , then i guess i have to take the plunge for Frey 2.

You’re in Denmark and couldn’t demo Ansuz? That’s a whole new level of absurdity.

Congrats on the Nordost. They make great power cables.


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Funny story. My son and I went to audition the Auralic Vega DAC in a $100K system with Rockport speakers, VTL 450 wpc tube mono blocks, Vitus preamp and some other high end cables and gear in a room specially designed for audio. We started talking about power cords and the owner said I had to hear this $1K power cord because it made a huge difference in sound. He placed it in the system and we heard no difference. Even the owner was miffed and did not hear a difference. I am not saying PC's can't make a difference, but it is clearly system dependent. My son and I had a good laugh after we left though. I ended up buying my Luxman DAC as the Vega did not sound much better than the Van Alstine Hybrid tube/ss DAC I was using.

FDPDK, don't get me wrong. I am not saying that PC's don't make a difference. I am a believer in cables and cords making a difference. I was just telling a story. In my experience with IC's and usb cables, I have definitely heard differences. The biggest were with usb cables, and they each have sounded different in different systems. I have not had enough experience with Power Cords to really form an opinion. However, from all the user experiences that I have read, I do believe that they can improve sound.

Regards,

Larry

Originally Posted by jinjuku

I had a loaner set of some various Pangea P.C.'s

1. Incredibly stiff and hard to route
2. Heavy enough that without cable lifters of correct height they would unplug
3. Compared to my 14AWG Belden Shielded, that I made my self, no difference in sound either instrumented or subjective evaluation when no one was allowed to know what was in use.

The amps where NCore 400, Threshold Stasis, and a modified Hafler. Various speakers.

I would like to visit someone with a setup where they make a difference and see it done in the blind.

So Ethernet cables and P.C.'s, so far, hold no sway for me. I just use well built and in some cases I build them to ensure quality, and that's about it. And proper power and signal cable routing so the two don't meet.

Arguably, Pangea power cables aren't a sure thing when it comes down to positively impacting sound quality. I've owned and used or demoed most of the Pangea cables at some point. Performance has varied from not much change, to making the sound a bit better, to making it worse depending on the component.
If nothing else, they might be a step up in construction versus a generic power cable, I suppose.

Did you try the AC14 or AC9 variety?

I've found a new budget power cable, purchased on Amazon so I had the option to return it, that I like much more than Pangea. It's from a company called WAudio, and manufactured in China if I'm not mistaken. For about $50, for 1 to 2 meter lengths, it's a 10AWG copper cable with what looks like decent copper connectors. I purchased two, one for a small guitar combo amp and one for connecting an older PS Audio Quintet to the wall for a small stereo. It improved the sound of the small guitar amp, enormously, and the stereo, more marginally, with sibilance being slightly reduced and a slightly more natural sounding frequency balance. Surprisingly, it doesn't appear to be at the expense of attack or by the of rolling off of high frequencies. I'm pleased, overall, and won't be returning them to Amazon.
I'll probably try one in my main system to really quantify how it sounds.

Originally Posted by jinjuku

I had both the AC14 and the AC9 (to my amp)

Lots of stars!

It doesn't hurt to give a listen when one can easily return it, though. Such was my experience, in my current system, with all of the new Pangea power cables, at least.

I am happy with the AC14SE MKIIs that I got for my CDP and Pre, so I ordered another for my OPPO. Using the PS Audio on my Amp and ordered another for my APC unit. I am happy with the improvement for the cost and ability to return if needed and not deal with mail from other countries.

Originally Posted by Shadowfax

I am happy with the AC14SE MKIIs that I got for my CDP and Pre, so I ordered another for my OPPO. Using the PS Audio on my Amp and ordered another for my APC unit. I am happy with the improvement for the cost and ability to return if needed and not deal with mail from other countries.

Brian, the WAudio ones I mention at around $50, depending on length, are shipped by Amazon in 1, 1.5, and 2 meter lengths, so there was no mail from other countries or risk of return inconveniences. I only mentioned the origin as China because there were longer lengths available on Amazon, but, directly from the seller, that I'm guessing is in China based on the internet research I did.

While I haven't listened to Pangea on the two products I mentioned, I actually went to Amazon to purchase a Pangea power cable when I ran across the WAudio power cables. But based on my previous experience with Pangea, I don't think Pangea would have performed better on the particular components I used them on. What sold me on trying them before Pangea was their $50-ish price, 10AWG copper spec, and the connectors.

I'm curious to give context to what I hear from the WAudio power cables when I get to try one in my main system. It's quite possible their deficits might be illuminated in my main system.

IMO I think cables of all types should be as close to the end of your audio journey as you want to get. I say that because once you have the sound you'll finally live with cables will fine tune what you already love as far as sound. Personally I find Ansuz (not inexpensive) make a sizable change for the better with what I have. Start changing speakers/amps etc and it may not be right for those components.

Again just my opinion

I agree with Skip in regard to cabling. I consider clean power, good cables, and effective vibration control to be the foundation for a good stereo. Get the foundation solid and you can add new gear and expect it to work at, or near, optimum, right from the start.

This is just my opinion here, so don’t go ballistic, but I feel using cables to tune a system is one of the stupidest things done in audio.

Originally Posted by DSkip

I'm quite the opposite. While you may not need to invest in endgame cabling solutions, having a solid baseline in all cable arenas is second only to basic room treatments in being able to hear what a component change REALLY brings to the table. Differences that were once indistinguishable can stand out like sore thumbs once those two areas are addressed.

As far as Pangea goes, the original cables were a step up from generic stock cables but the SE version of the 14 was a decent cable for the money, especially used. The 9 is just a stupid cable by design (talk about stiff!) and doesn't sound much better than it bends. I'm not sure if they improved that issue on later versions or not but I had no intention of finding out.

I stand corrected and I have to agree with that part. What I was referring to was uber expensive "end game" cabling. Best to start with a good foundation from the wall.

Originally Posted by BlueFox

This is just my opinion here, so don’t go ballistic, but I feel using cables to tune a system is one of the stupidest things done in audio.

I disagree with you 100%!! Every piece of gear "tunes" your system to get is closer to what you want to hear. Why would you pay money for something that does nothing? People choose tubes or SS because one or the other gets them closer to what they want to hear. Once they purchase tube gear they swap tubes to get the sound closer to what they want to hear. You chose amps that drive your speakers to get them closer to what you want to hear. I position my chair to get me closer to what I want to hear. Some individuals use tone controls to get them closer to waht they want to hear. Every single time you add, change or remove something from your system or room you are tuning the sound to get it closer to what you want to hear.

Both agreeing and expounding upon what Still One just said, I think of cables like spice when cooking. You first get your main ingredients first then you add the spices to finish the recipe.
I think the majority here have heard the differences that cables make in a system. Put in a cable that doesn't compliment your systems balance and you will hear it right away. (and get it out of the system quickly).
Think about it, why is The Cable Co sucessfull with their lending library?
Add the right spices (cables) and get wonderful results. Add the wrong spices (cables) and you will be dissapointed.
So I ask, why would it be stupid to use cables to tune your system?

As I said, this is my opinion. A cable should be as neutral as possible. It should neither add or detract to the signal being transmitted. If you need to change the cable because you changed a piece of gear then you have a major design issue.

Bud
If cables were truly neutral then you would be correct. But they are not. Some pass certain frequencies better than other (band pass). All have an inherent resonance that color the sound to some degree in one direction or the other.
When changing components you must take into account the output impedance of the two (or more) pieces in the chain (among other variables).
It is clear that this whole cable thing is not an exact science. You can't list your components in a database somewhere and press enter and receive the "suggested" cable information.
All I'm saying is, "use the wrong cables in your system and you will know it".

Originally Posted by still-one

I disagree with you 100%!! Every piece of gear "tunes" your system to get is closer to what you want to hear. Why would you pay money for something that does nothing? People choose tubes or SS because one or the other gets them closer to what they want to hear. Once they purchase tube gear they swap tubes to get the sound closer to what they want to hear. You chose amps that drive your speakers to get them closer to what you want to hear. I position my chair to get me closer to what I want to hear. Some individuals use tone controls to get them closer to waht they want to hear. Every single time you add, change or remove something from your system or room you are tuning the sound to get it closer to what you want to hear.

Agreed on all counts....bear in mind I NEVER would have believed 15-20+ years ago that power cables could tune a system or that one or another could better, worse or indifferent synergy with a given component, amplifier, etc....Many years later after hearing that some pc's make some amps sound positively dark and brooding as they are not a good match versus others that open them up and show all they are capable of, I know that I was either wrong all these years or that the state of metallurgical sciences and science in general behind these cables plus superior manufacturing techniques available versus 20-25+ years ago has advanced to such a level that we are seeing its effects in audio and video quality.

I'm not sure why people get emotional on this topic (not here but certainly on other forums like Audiogon but then the trolls there need a life LOL!); the world laughed at the concept of 'super conductors' many, many years ago but no one laughs anymore and several Nobel Prizes followed I believe as all accept that the theory is in fact reality. Audio and Video somehow attract greater than their share of skeptics and naysayers...

I have a retired engineer who works with me in the store part-time. He used to work at VAC, among other places. Great guy. He LOVES to try out power cables. I just leave him alone in the store. There is no doubt there are big differences in power cables IF THE SYSTEM IS REVEALING enough. If you have a really colored speaker and a really colored amp, the differences won't be as noticeable. That's been my findings.

I am not sure if available in the US but I am a big fan of power- and other audio cables from ViaBlue. If soundstage is your thing give it a try!

Originally Posted by Mike

I have a retired engineer who works with me in the store part-time. He used to work at VAC, among other places. Great guy. He LOVES to try out power cables. I just leave him alone in the store. There is no doubt there are big differences in power cables IF THE SYSTEM IS REVEALING enough. If you have a really colored speaker and a really colored amp, the differences won't be as noticeable. That's been my findings.

In general definitely agree with you; there are exceptions but not that many from what I've seen/heard.